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Women, do you really think you're discriminated against relating to STEM? Because it feels like the opposite.

xsp4rrow

August 21, 2015
85 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://imgur.com/gallery/B7FtleO/new
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Title Women, do you really think you're discriminated against relating to STEM? Because it feels like the opposite.
Author

xsp4rrow

Upvotes 85
Comments 28
Date August 21, 2015 8:39 PM UTC
(10 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3hw64r/women_do_you_really_think_youre_discriminated/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/women-do-you-really-think-youre-discriminated.972828
https://theredarchive.com/post/972828
Top posts by xsp4rrow

If you're an MRA, don't play Magic

34 upvotes
August 7, 2015
/r/MensRights

I think it has more to do with being a narcissistic twat than being a woman....

30 upvotes
May 23, 2017
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 10 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

The only comment on Imgur was someone stating "That's one interpretation. Can another be that so many scholarship exist because of some form of systemic discrimination?"

First off, can it be proven that there are less women in STEM because of "systemic discrimination"? Maybe women simply choose other educations?

Secondly, you're attempting to combat discrimination with more intentional discrimination?

So you're advocating in favor of discrimination in response to something that may be discrimination?

EDIT: This actually really pisses me off. This is literal discrimination out in the open, funded by the government. And... seemingly nobody cares?

[–]Tmomp 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

And... seemingly nobody cares?

We care. We don't have the political voice that women do simply for being women. That is, we don't have their privilege.

[–]LilyBentley 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There are some of us that sympathize. :)

[–]VicisSubsisto 8 points9 points10 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So you're advocating in favor of discrimination in response to something that may be discrimination?

Critical race theory/feminist theory in a nutshell.

[–]wera34 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

First off, can it be proven that there are less women in STEM because of "systemic discrimination"? Maybe women simply choose other educations?

I don't agree with the sentment expressed by milo that it's because men are inherently more interested in science.Yes I know about the simon baron cohen study and about the women who took testerone and suddenly became interested in science. I think it's because women dominate he social sphere so men turn to building things and inventing things to find validation. For example the movie "Meet the robinsons" features a boy who is socially awkard and in the movie and he basically has to invent the goddam future inorder to get the friends and family he always wanted!

[–]User-31f64a4e 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Are you a woman?

It's a myth that men are less socially apt than women. It's men who have the track record of successful cooperation - the military, the entire business world before 1970, team sports, etc. There is a reason both men and women prefer male coworkers. Less cattiness, less backstabbing, a willingness to settle disputes and then move on instead of holding grudges.

What men and boys are not, is women and girls. IF you define "society" as mixed company where women get to make the rules because of their same-sex ingroup preference and men's inherent gynocentrism and willingness to cater to them ... THEN sure, on average women are better at playing the game they made up.

Since you seem to like using mass entertainment as "evidence", consider Mad Men. In that time, before society got overly feminized, men were dominant in the social sphere.

[–]wera34 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What men and boys are not, is women and girls. IF you define "society" as mixed company where women get to make the rules because of their same-sex ingroup preference and men's inherent gynocentrism and willingness to cater to them ... THEN sure, on average women are better at playing the game they made up.

yeah.But its not new. Chivary for example

Since you seem to like using mass entertainment as "evidence", consider Mad Men. In that time, before society got overly feminized, men were dominant in the social sphere.

That show was about the 1%. The 1% now is till mostly men

[–]geniice 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Chivary for example

A largely theoretical system that at most applied to a tiny part of society that ignored it when convenient.

[–]geniice 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's a myth that men are less socially apt than women. It's men who have the track record of successful cooperation - the military,

Given the massive amount of effort successful militarises put into command and control that seems like a rather poor example. Your average resistance group might make a better case but looking at how often those things splinter not really.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think it's because women dominate he social sphere so men turn to building things and inventing things to find validation.

[–]wera34 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

By social sphere I mean women get treated well and are validated all the time by society. It's so crazy. Here's a comedian ranting about how motherhood is hardest job in the world

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I think it's because women dominate he social sphere so men turn to building things and inventing things to find validation. For example >I think it's because women dominate he social sphere so men turn to building things and inventing things to find validation. For example the movie "Meet the robinsons" features a boy who is socially awkard and in the movie and he basically has to invent the goddam future inorder to get the friends and family he always wanted!

Um.... yeah. This is feminist level "thinking." I think I'll rely on actual SCIENCE to answer questions like that, instead of movies and "what you think."

[–]wera34 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

actual SCIENCE to answer questions

Well we don't have scientific answers to these question so....

[–]xNOM 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

The evidence is plentiful. Even if it weren't, pulling "ideas" out of movies strikes me as exactly the same gender studies crap methodology that got us here in the first place.

https://np.reddit.com/r/mensrightslinks/comments/2yuo8m/socialpaper_womens_representation_in_60

https://www.aei.org/publication/math-test-results-from-500000-students-in-65-countries-reveal-significant-gender-differences-in-favor-of-boys/

https://np.reddit.com/r/mensrightslinks/comments/2z0yz6/socialabstract_sex_differences_in_human_neonatal/

Edit: fixed link

[–]wera34 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

All these studies say is that women don't go into stem. Which we knew that. The last one juar says men and women are born different Also dude I have no idea why you are crticising me so harashly. It's not like I'm pitching rape culutre, or the patariarchy.

[–]FastFourierTerraform 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is literal discrimination out in the open, funded by the government.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Take literally any fellowship or grant application, and about a third of it has to be dedicated to proving that you're SJW enough to deserve the money. Take a look at NSF GRFP applications that get accepted. They read like Twitch Plays Pokemon: Tumblr edits a grant proposal edition.

[–]rm_-rf_slash 10 points11 points12 points 10 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

Scholarships are meant as incentives. The logic follows that women would need more incentive if they are underrepresented in STEM. I don't think this has anything to do with discrimination to be honest.

Edit: "The logic follows" means that that is how the logic follows to them and is not necessarily representative of my opinion. I know there are illogical reasons why this scholarship disparity exists.

[+][deleted] 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]rm_-rf_slash 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

I actually agree with you but there is one reason that comes to mind that seems solid. That is, if you have an industry packed to the gills with one gender, the industry begins to cater to that gender and sometimes that relies catering to gender-specific traits. Whenever someone of the other gender does want to enter that field, it can be off-putting at least or hostile at worst.

This apparently happens a lot in development circles (e.g. China hiring attractive women to be "cheerleaders" to motivate developers could certainly be unsettling to female developers), but I'm not allowed to say I've never seen it because apparently I'm just blind to it, even though I've worked at many different places and not once had a gender issue.

I believe in meritocracy and not a lot of the workplace regulations aimed at "non-discrimination" that only end up neutering a workplace but some standard of behavior probably is best.

[–]icallmyselfmonster 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

the industry begins to cater to that gender

Sorry that is bullshit. I have heard it my whole life working in IT. Even where I work now, if you are a woman and not retarded you will get a job. The job is hostile towards women in two ways. Its a sink or swim meritocracy. Its hard. As much as I will be scripting for automation. I could equally have a few days where I have to go to the datacenter. Working under HAVC, running cables, lifting equipment. We don't even talk when we are at the datacenter, because its simply too noisy. Its hostile towards everybody.

[–]xNOM 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Its hostile towards everybody.

Lack of gynocentrism constitutes a "hostile working environment for women." LOL See Gamergate, CEO quotas, primary education, ....

[–]64565454645 5 points6 points7 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Studies show that women don’t want to go into STEM, much preferring healthcare. Are there incentives for men in healthcare? No, of course not. Beyond that, common sense and observation shows that men are more likely to be nerds or otherwise outcasts in a way that tends to facilitate interest in STEM subjects. All of those lonely men who aren’t good enough for Miss Perfect have to do something, and many of them went to computers. This is letting the few women who do want to do STEM roll through in gold-plated oppression-shields.

Furthermore, remember, men are getting close to one-third representation in secondary education. No one does and no one care about this ("men love trade professions, men can't adapt, men make poor choices") will until the “marriage crisis” hits women who want children and can’t wait any longer. Let’s validate the feminist argument while they call us a hate movement. This all makes so much sense!

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think it has anything to do with discrimination either. I think it's related to discrimination because women seem to think they are discriminated against, when, in actuality, there are more opportunities for them as opposed to men. I see no discrimination here. If anything, society is enabling women more then ever, yet, STEM continues to be male dominated. This is a choice and nothing else.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Everyone who thinks women are discriminated against in STEM majored in Indonesian Basket Weaving Studies. They feel discriminated against because they either didn't even try or couldn't hack it and now work as baristas.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You will probably find women under represented here , and mainly men answering your question .

[–]goodfoobar 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm recalling a conversation between engineering students. The women in the group were annoyed with the professors as there were little extra encouragements and comments that the men were not getting. They didn't like the extra as they wanted to be treated based on merit and they could not be sure that was happening. The men in the group were surprised this was happening. This conversation happened in the 1990's.

[–]ventixi 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

As a woman in STEM, within the system you're treated very well and given way more opportunities upon graduation (I actually doubt anyone denies that within the system). I'm pretty sure people might think sexist stuff occasionally but none of it ever affected me and any negative thoughts are generally kept to themselves.

If there's any discrimination it's generally from outside the system/the older generation. I don't directly work with customers but if I did they'll probably trust a guy more than me, but you can't really change stuff like that by force.

I've only worked for a few years though, not sure how senior management is.

[–]col0rader -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, I mean I get that they're unrepresented but what happened to merit? If they were good enough, they'd be there by now, it worked for Putin.

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