Affirmative Consent: Are Students Really Asking?

mochacola · 2015-07-28T12:09:03+00:00

I'm writing an app to teach college kids how to have sex. Boys send pop up windows of "yes/no" for girls to click on their phone. I'm doing my part of teaching men not to rape, to have proper healthy sex. Unlike my grandparents who did not understand what sex is and probably accidentally committed rape by reading wrong body language.

DavidByron2 · 2015-07-28T15:06:42+00:00

The idea is it's like having a 30 mph zone in some hick town right? The cops can arrest anyone more or less but they don't arrest the locals because it's intended to trap motorists just driving through to shake them down.

Affirmative consent laws are intended to potentially make everyone a rapist but of course only men are prosecuted, and then only when the woman they had sex with decides she's pissed off with them for some reason.

It's a racket designed to shake down any man if a woman has sex with him and wants to screw him over for some reason at any time later in her life.

copsgonnacop · 2015-07-28T17:43:49+00:00

I asked a test question: Can a really drunk person give consent?

“My answer to that is no,” he said. He was right.

“Consent cannot be given when a person is incapacitated.”

Well. I'm glad that the NY Times writer is also an attorney, judge and jury who was able to independently determine that "really drunk" people are "incapacitated".

“It wasn’t something we’d agreed upon,” she said. “It wasn’t sexy.” She told him to stop, she said, and tried to push him away, and that’s when “he covered my mouth with his hand” until he was finished.

The new "yes means yes / affirmative consent" rules are irrelevant to this anecdote.

About a month after my sit-down with Mr. Frahme, I checked in with him by phone. Since first hearing about the new policy, he said, he had been practicing consent almost religiously. He now asks for consent once or twice during sexual encounters with women he knows well, and four or five times during more casual or first-time hookups.

“I certainly didn’t expect the policy to change my behavior,” he said, “but it has.”

It’s getting to be a little more comfortable, he said. He crafts and poses questions like “You O.K. with this?” “Do you still want to go ahead?” and “Hey, you don’t have to do this if you don’t want to.”

One woman he was having sex with for the first time accused him of being devious in asking for consent. She thought he was using reverse psychology to get her in bed. That wasn’t it at all, he said.

“I’m just letting them know I’m not trying to pressure anyone into something they are going to regret.”

It is interesting that there is no discussion about whether or not these women have been asking Mr. Frahme for consent.

mochacola · 2015-07-28T12:37:54+00:00

“This one guy kept tugging at me and touching and pawing me and he just wouldn’t stop,” she said.

So what did she do?

“I pretended I was dead.”

Like an animal?

“Exactly.”

Did it work? She shook her head.

O.K., then, given that story, I asked: Of the 10 men she knew and respected most on campus, how many would benefit from training in sexual consent?

Without a moment’s pause, she said, “11.”

What the heck is this? Anyone of you know a normal woman who knows ten respectable men in her life who would start touching her body when she play dead? And then invite another one to do the same to make it 11?

AtticusFrenchToast · 2015-07-28T14:02:50+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2015-07-28T13:45:41+00:00

But it turns out that men and women are not great verbal communicators when it comes to sex. Both genders are likely to follow what Kristen J. Jozkowski, a sex researcher and assistant professor at the University of Arkansas, characterizes as “traditional sexual scripts,” whereby men are the pursuers and women the gatekeepers of sex, trained by society to be reluctant. Studies have found these stereotypes, even in the age of hookup sites like Tinder, to be generally true. Men tend to rely on nonverbal cues in interpreting consent (61 percent say they get consent via body language), but women tend to wait to be asked before signaling consent (only 10 percent say they give consent via body language). No wonder there’s so much confusion.

Heather Mac Donald: The Campus Rape Myth

The campus sex-management industry locks in its livelihood by introducing a specious clarity to what is inherently mysterious and an equally specious complexity to what is straightforward. Both the pseudo-clarity and pseudo-complexity work in a woman’s favor, of course. “If one partner puts a condom on the other, does that signify that they are consenting to intercourse?” asks Berkowitz. Short of guiding the thus-sheathed instrumentality to port, it’s hard to imagine a clearer signal of consent. But perhaps a girl who has just so outfitted her partner will decide after the fact that she has been “raped”—so better to declare the action, as Berkowitz does, “inherently ambiguous.”

AvgGuy101 · 2015-07-28T18:28:00+00:00

Given the new definition of consent with the new laws, I wonder how many of the politicians who supported and approved these laws have been guilty of sexual assault? How about the teachers and school administrators?

If these people want a witch hunt, maybe they should get what they ask for.

_Eggs_ · 2015-07-28T20:38:27+00:00

The biggest challenge Ms. Stenger faces, she says, is addressing the alcohol question because men and women think the situation is a wash when both are inebriated. “It makes me crazy,” she said. “They ask, ‘Am I still a victim?’ Yes!”

Holy shit. People like this actually exist.

TIL EVERY MAN WHO HAS EVER HAD SEX WHILE DRUNK HAS BEEN RAPED.

Tedesche · 2015-07-29T00:36:04+00:00

Women just shouldn't be allowed to drink. At all. Ever. /s

v573v · 2015-07-29T10:15:07+00:00

I asked a test question: Can a really drunk person give consent?

“Consent cannot be given when a person is incapacitated.”

That is a true statement however being drunk and being incapacitated are not the same thing but notice that "incapacitated" switches back to "intoxicated" in the next paragraph but the speaker covers their ass by saying that consent "may not be obtainable".

Title	Affirmative Consent: Are Students Really Asking?
Author	AtticusFrenchToast
Upvotes	16
Comments	22
Date	July 28, 2015 11:51 AM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3evzei/affirmative_consent_are_students_really_asking/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/affirmative-consent-are-students-really-asking.974513 https://theredarchive.com/post/974513

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