I'd like to understand MRAs and Feminists

EyeRedditDaily · 2015-03-24T20:14:22+00:00

I'd like to have a debate with MRAs and feminists

if 'the genders' is a construct we made up to begin with

False premise. The genders isn't a construct we made up. The genders are males born with penises and xy chromosomes; and females born with xx chromosomes. With a random mutation thrown in every once in a while that is irrelevant to the discussion.

DavidByron2 · 2015-03-24T19:19:19+00:00

I'd like to have a debate with MRAs and feminists about gender

Feminists never try to defend their views with critics around. They suck at it because their opinions are hate. Hate isn't very easy to defend in a debate. it's all wink wink stuff. You know, ---those people.

Feminists ban all critics from their boards.

How do we have equality among 'the genders'

Well you could start by stopping the feminists from passing sex discriminatory laws that attack men.

I'm confused as to how any group, whether it's MRAs or Feminists, can claim to want equality among the genders while going about it in a way that consciously focuses on the issues of just one of the said genders

Feminism is an institutionalized (popular) hate movement. Like the Nazis or the KKK were. If you want equality then you have to fight against that hate. Does that answer your question?

guywithaccount · 2015-03-24T19:38:22+00:00

I'm confused as to how any group, whether it's MRAs or Feminists, can claim to want equality among the genders while going about it in a way that consciously focuses on the issues of just one of the said genders.

The MRM exists in the context of a society where there are already countless forums and institutions for discussing and addressing women's issues.

BlueDoorFour · 2015-03-24T19:52:53+00:00

Is the goal equality? Or is it 'justice'? Do those words mean the same to you?

MRAs would like attitudes and laws to change regarding the legal rights and social standing of men. Equality (to me at least) means that all human beings are given the same basic human rights and responsibilities. I don't know what you mean by "justice." To me, that tends to mean fair treatment before the law, in which case obviously that would fall under equality.

Shouldn't we remove the concept of 'the genders' to remove the inequality among them?

This is like addressing racism by denying the existence of race. Even if you accept the feminist idea that all gender is socially-constructed, it still exists, and to deny that is to deny reality.

The common opinion here seems to be that men and women (and variations thereupon) are different, but have equal rights as human being: Rights to independence, fair treatment, and basic dignity. These rights come with responsibilities and risks.

The other common attitude is that it's not simply one gender on top of the other in society. Since gender crosses all social and political lines, it is impossible for one gender to be uniformly privileged over another the way races can be. What happens is that genders (for the sake of simplicity, let's go with the traditional two) face different challenges in life. While the women's rights movement has done a lot to free women of their traditional role, it has failed to address the issues men face because it operates on the feminist patriarchy theory. How can men be suffering when they're "the gender on top"? Well, we're here to address that.

There are feminists out there whom I agree with to some extent. These are the ones who fought for women to be allowed into colleges, and not put under curfews and things. They struggled to have women be treated as adults, not children to be preserved and protected. Lately the attitude has gone to "women are suffering so give us more protection." The facts just don't support this.

I'm in a very philosophical mood today, and I'm confused as to how any group, whether it's MRAs or Feminists, can claim to want equality among the genders while going about it in a way that consciously focuses on the issues of just one of the said genders.

This is a bit like asking why an aid worker in the Sudan doesn't care about people suffering in North Korea -- people focus their activism and advocacy on specific areas. MRAs focus on men's issues because they're largely neglected.

The biggest difference, though, between the MRM and Feminism is not the target of advocacy so much as the wordview. Feminism is an ideology. A way of looking at the world. The MRM is a loose collection of people who reject this and try to raise awareness of issues men face.

goodfoobar · 2015-03-24T20:48:45+00:00

Gender behaviour is not exclusively a social construct no matter how much people want to believe that it is. Shouldn't we celebrate our diversity rather then deny it's existence?

Does equality to you mean outcome or opportunity? They are very different things.

iainmf · 2015-03-24T23:41:25+00:00

and I'm confused as to how any group, whether it's MRAs or Feminists, can claim to want equality among the genders while going about it in a way that consciously focuses on the issues of just one of the said genders.

People who advocate for men's rights are called men's rights advocates. It's backwards to ask why MRAs only focus on men. That like asking why basketball players only play basketball. People can be men's rights advocates and women's rights advocates. There's no inherent dismissal of women's issues in being an MRA, most MRAs support equal rights for men and women.

Feminism, on the other hand, starts from the premise that women are worse off than men, and equality can only be gained by 'empowering' women. So it only focuses on women's issues.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-03-24T19:07:53+00:00

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freethinkaa · 2015-03-24T19:32:57+00:00

There's a sub for that, this isn't it.

wazzup987 · 2015-03-24T21:18:59+00:00

So would we even over at feMRAdeabtes, there are only a couple regulars

DavidByron2 · 2015-03-24T19:09:46+00:00

MRAs: "this specific law is fucked up"

Feminists: WAH WAH WAH THE PATRIARCHY WAH WAH WAH MY OATMEAL IS TOO LUMPY WAH WAH WAH I DIDN'T GET A PONY GROWING UP WAH WAH WAH I'M AN ONLY CHILD WAH WAH WAH TRIGGER WARNING I HAVE TO GO PLAY WITH COLORING BOOKS NOW WAH WAH WAH

Title	I'd like to understand MRAs and Feminists
Author	freethinkaa
Upvotes	0
Comments	53
Date	March 24, 2015 7:07 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/305wex/id_like_to_understand_mras_and_feminists/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/id-like-to-understand-mras-and-feminists.984986 https://theredarchive.com/post/984986

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