Some questions about fellow MRA's opinions on circumcision (not a troll post)

yelirbear · 2015-01-14T18:45:30+00:00

1) No issues at all with a consenting adult getting the procedure. Even adolescent circumcision is okay in my opinion because an adolescent can at the very least understand what is happening to them and can voice opinions and objections.

2) The idea of "health benefits" of circumcision is shaky at best. If we are talking about preventing STIs and HIV I would say that babies are not having intercourse so that decision could wait until they are at an age to consent. The parents would obviously have the say if a procedure is medically necessary but circumcision does not fall under this category.

Circumcision is 100% purely about traditional reasons, which is fine. Just don't say it is for medical reasons because that is just a lie.

DavidByron2 · 2015-01-14T19:04:33+00:00

for the health of the baby

Funny how no other civilized country thinks that. Just the one where Kellogg wanted to stop little boys masturbating. Also if you actually look at their arguments they say that cutting up the boy is good for the health of women, not the baby.

Can you imagine if people argued for FGM on the basis of whether it was good for men's health?

v573v · 2015-01-14T20:35:42+00:00

The baby is tongue tied so snipping the tongue is correcting an already present problem; circumcision is done to a healthy penis with no problems present.

I can see a significant difference.

It's more like removing all of your teeth because you MIGHT suffer from the dreaded gingivitis later on in life... Or any other oral issue PERHAPS sometime in the future...

GrammarJew · 2015-01-14T19:44:48+00:00

How does the MRM feel about adult circumcision i.e. adult men choosing to do it on their own volition?

Simple, look at this graph

Circumcision means two things. It's used as shorthand for "the automatic and widespread circumcision of male boys and the perpetuated culture (ho hum) that stops people questioning this, a practice incidentally that started pretty much overnight at a very interested point of time in US history not that long ago".

If somewhere in 1980 all male boys had started getting circumcised and nobody could remember why, would you question it?

What if it was in 2011, and suddenly people realized that for the last few years it's been happening, and we start asking why? Would you question it then?

So why don't you question it when the practice is actually still very recent, if this was a usenet post I might be telling you that it started just 40-50 years ago. (if we were back in 1990)

It's a NEW PRACTICE, that nobody will say why it is happening, but it was pushed for minimizing differences between religious cultures and general non-religious populations. How fucked up is that? With a few bullshit words and the promise of $5 you can claim for doing the procedure.

People will literally let a family on the other side of the world get raped, tortured and eaten for $5, that's how people are. It's takes a tiny incentive for us to allow, as a third party, someone to disadvantage someone else.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Newborn_Circumcision_Rate_(%25)_1900-2010.svg

2015-01-15T02:36:03+00:00

1: How does the MRM feel about adult circumcision i.e. adult men choosing to do it on their own volition?

His body; his choice, as long as it is his choice.

2: When I argue with people about circumcision, they tell me that it's done at birth for the health of the baby.

I've never seen a good study on this, or even a bad one that tested something interesting. I've seen "it's my hygienic if the man doesn't clean his penis." Though, that's not interesting since cleaning your penis is easy as hell.

It's especially not worth the desensitivity, chance of it going wrong and the infant getting a warped penis or a micropenis, not worth the risk of ptsd or other psychological disorders, and not worth causing pain to an infant.

What are your thoughts?

Don't mutilate an infant's genitals.

TerryOller · 2015-01-15T19:53:28+00:00

2: When I argue with people about circumcision, they tell me that it's done at birth for the health of the baby.

"“The research was carried out in Denmark among a cohort of all children born between 1994 and 2003. During the study over 340,000 boys were followed up to the age of nine between 1994 and 2013 and almost 5,000 cases of ASD were diagnosed. The study showed that regardless of cultural background circumcised boys may run a greater risk of developing ASD. Painful experiences in neonates have been shown in animal and human studies to be associated with long-term alterations in pain perception, a characteristic often encountered among children with ASD."

"Circumcised boys are more likely than intact boys to develop autism spectrum disorder before the age of 10, new research suggests. Painful experiences in neonates have been shown in animal and human studies to be associated with long-term alterations in pain perception, a characteristic often encountered among children with ASD."

BlueDoorFour · 2015-01-14T18:57:09+00:00

1: I feel the same about adult circumcision, or even adolescent circumcision (with parental consent), as I do about any other form of body modification. You want to pierce your nipples? Bifurcate your tongue? Gauge your ears? Well, you might regret it someday, but go ahead.

2: For a useful parallel, let's consider vaccines. Vaccines prevent potentially deadly illnesses from spreading through the populace, and protect your child from them. They are necessary at early ages because these diseases can strike at early ages.

I have yet to hear a single argument that infant circumcision is necessary for the health of the baby. The only advantage to being circumcised is a slightly reduced risk of UTIs, but proper hygiene practices can eliminate this risk. There's some evidence that circumcision reduces the risk of some STIs, but that's irrelevant to a child.

Surgery can be necessary on an infant to ensure its healthy growth. But the evidence is overwhelming (i.e., the 70% of men worldwide who are not circumcised) that circumcision is not necessary for the safety or health of a developing boy. Whatever marginal benefits it may offer (regardless of the considerable risks), are irrelevant until a point when the child can decide for himself anyway.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-01-14T18:30:28+00:00

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genderbent · 2015-01-14T21:29:40+00:00

1) circumcision by consenting adults seems perfectly reasonable to me. we should be free to modify our bodies should we so wish.

2) the health benefits of circumcision are minor (marginally reduced risk of penile cancer and HIV transmission) and controversial at that, especially when weighed against the risk of complications. but even ignoring the risk of complications, the risks circumcision may slightly mitigate are already negligible in infants, so there's no logical reason the procedure couldn't be held off until the person atttached to the penis can decide for themselves.

Viperscoldeye · 2015-01-15T05:01:42+00:00

I know I'll probably take some flack for this, but I don't think this is as big as an issue as we make it out it is. Yes I am circumcised, by a decision of my parents, not for tradition or religion but for hygiene. And yes, it was a decision that I had no power or control over but it's just something that has happened, move on. I have to drive on the left side of the road (Australian here), I didn't make that decision, maybe I want to drive on the right. But the decision is made, move on.

I believe it should be something to look at in the future but I don't think it should be the issue that the Men's Rights should be using to spearhead with.

2015-01-15T08:39:27+00:00

1: How does the MRM feel about adult circumcision i.e. adult men choosing to do it on their own volition?

Fine, they should have the choice. Doesn't fucking concern me, adults are adults who can make their own adult decisions and deal with the consequences of those decisions.

2: When I argue with people about circumcision, they tell me that it's done at birth for the health of the baby.

Society has perpetuated the idea that men are flawed at birth and should have a massive portion of their nerve endings removed for "health". Most of the world is uncircumcised and they're getting along in life just fine. You can add to that the fact that studies done regarding circumcision were done in developing nations making them non-relevant to those in developed nations.

Infant circumcision should be banned. 100%. No exceptions. End of Story.

Folsomdsf · 2015-01-15T17:21:40+00:00

Not really an MRA but I'll weigh in.

Adults can do what they want with their body.
In the presence of clean water, soap, and now knowing the importance of hygiene this is a false thing to argue from top to bottom on both sides. Germ theory did not exist(no really, that virus/bacteria/etc cause illness is really just a theory just like evolution and gravity! Wake up Sheeple! /s) but people could notice that the shit under their foreskin after they hadn't washed for a few days seemed pretty gross. Sort of like pork, they knew eating it could kill your ass back then but not why. Proper cooking and hygiene weren't really explored so were simply taken care of by banning pork and cutting off the foreskin. There's half a million other religious rules that were strangely specific and target a 'problem' that we now have a solution to.

2015-01-18T04:07:42+00:00

1: All good, they can do their research and it is their body.

2: The cereal guy is really the one to listen to about your babies? Along with flawed studies done in Africa?

Notorganic · 2015-01-15T00:31:33+00:00

I wonder how the discussion would go if tongue snips was the cause of a number of patients losing the ability to taste food in later life.

Frittern · 2015-01-14T21:01:55+00:00

just ignore I didn't read the adult circumcision part.. Read if you want my take on infant circumcision.

I do not think it should outlawed. On fence about if I would support having it done to any boy I might have. I don't think a government financed body should recommend it unless their is clear and compelling evidence that supports the benefits over the cost and dangers....I believe parents "both" should be able to make the choice with factual information on risks vs benefit. With disagreement meaning the boy remains intact..I also think it's a matter of asking..Doctors and health professionals shouldn't even proffer the choice but if parents bring it up then the information and choice should be available.

I come from a generation and peer group, American white males that are by a significant majority circumcised. I have not noticed that my peers have less or enjoy sex less than men from other demographics.So for me it's a matter of seemingly marginal risk and marginal gain I oscillate.

I get the sense that a fair amount of the anti-circumcision movement membership is from the Gay male community. It kinda makes me wonder if there is some sort of penis pleasure envy dynamic at work. As a straight man I don't really care about the specifics of another mans sexual pleasure. I do not envy what additional pleasure another man might derive from having the foreskin. Maybe their is a preference for Uncircumcised men that makes circumscribed men feel excluded I dunno..

I evaluate it by functionality, does it work?can you feel it? do you get pleasure from it? can your orgasm? I think that by far most sexual pleasure is derived in the brain..The endorphins the hormones the reward and pleasure neurons firing are this is in the brain. Having more nerve receptor does not mean a bigger braingasim and studies show this.. All the good feeling bio-chems originates from the brain..Anyway that's my take..

atheist4thecause · 2015-01-15T10:31:05+00:00

1) I'd so most in the MRM think that adult circumcision should be the choice of the man.

2) I posted about circumcision a few weeks ago called "Shaming MRA's For Disagreeing Is Not Okay, and the Issue of Male Circumcision". You might want to look it up. Basically, I argued that there isn't enough information that the procedure is harmful to ban it, there is a difference between an infant who does not have the ability to consent and a child who can consent but is unwilling, and that the procedures is best done as an infant because of reasons such as the pain will not be remembered. While I am an MRA, I also recognize that this position is not an MRA position.

Title	Some questions about fellow MRA's opinions on circumcision (not a troll post)
Author	IcarusBurning
Upvotes	4
Comments	26
Date	January 14, 2015 6:30 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2sfbl3/some_questions_about_fellow_mras_opinions_on/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/some-questions-about-fellow-mras-opinions-on.990529 https://theredarchive.com/post/990529

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