What is toxic masculinity?

oneiorosgripwontstfu · 2015-01-14T01:29:22+00:00

"Toxic masculinity" is a term that is now used in the feminist community to associate characteristics viewed as negative or possessed to a negative extreme with the human condition of being male.

I first saw it in the write-up of this study, published in 2005, by researchers attempting to explain the difficulty of providing mental health treatment to male prison inmates. The term evolved from combining another term, "hegemonic masculinity" (the dominant notion of masculinity in a particular historical context) with the notion that the rough edge of that concept would include distorted or extreme versions of those traits.

However, the traits described in the article as "toxic" aren't strictly masculine traits, but traits of abusive, domineering, or dysfunction-suffering people of both sexes. The researchers, studying a gendered population, may have had circumstantial bias as an excuse for their lapse in judgment, but feminist groups claiming to understand and advocate for both sexes really don't. In order to use the term, they have to ignore that reality.

Since finding that study, I've noticed that term being used indiscriminately by feminists, tossed around in debate without regard to its false nature. Biased and sexist as its use is within the research community, the further you get from them, the more loosely defined the use becomes, so that in discussion, I've seen and heard it used to label normal behavior, such as ordinary competition and having strict standards for oneself, but only in application to men. None of the researchers involved in disseminating terms like this to the feminist public has made any overt, visible effort to correct the misuse within the community. This appears to be a by-design result; an intent to imply by association that masculinity is toxic. This insertion of bigotry into their methods is one reason behind the bias in research and reporting.

5HourEnergyExtra · 2015-01-14T03:44:25+00:00

Toxic masculinity is a bullshit concept. It's the name for men doing things feminists disapprove of. It's what let's women say things like "Men are violent" while pretending not to sound sexist. It's no different than if I were to invent the term "Thieving blackery" to refer to blacks who steal. I would then write all these theories about blackness and theft and go "No, I'm not racist. I'm only referring to thieving blackery. I also believe in healthy blackness, like when they help whites."

Jake0024 · 2015-01-14T00:03:07+00:00

Thunderf00t wasn't actually raised identically to his sister. Even if his parents tried to raise him identically (dressing them both in gender neutral clothing, buying them gender neutral toys, etc), society at large would have treated them differently. I'm not saying men aren't inherently more aggressive (I think they are), but no one lives in isolation and our society definitely encourages boys to be more aggressive (in addition to any inherent differences).

That said, toxic masculinity is definitely a thing. For instance, men aren't allowed to be emotional--excepting anger, frustration, rage, etc. This is problematic in an enormous number of ways.

SarcastiCock · 2015-01-14T00:35:14+00:00

To simplify, a male feminist will minimize and ignore legal and support issues and will blame all men's problems on the socialization of men.

Men are the fault of our own problems, it's victim blaming.

kragshot · 2015-01-14T15:29:11+00:00

The Bogey Man, Bloody Mary, The Hook toxic masculinity; it's just a myth used to scare children.

yelirbear · 2015-01-14T00:16:04+00:00

Toxic masculinity is the same self-fulfilling argument as blaming "the patriarchy". What you need to do is look at men's issues and ask if feminism is trying to fight the issues:

Mens suicide rate: No, these stats are marginalized and ignored by feminist outlets Men homelessness: Men are 90% of the homeless but there are a countless number more womens shelters than men's shelters (it isn't the patriarchy that runs shelters) Female desire for a breadwinner: The vast majority of women want a man who has a good stable career, this is not the patriarchy forcing men to have these jobs. The draft (US): Females have the right to vote with no strings attached; men not so much. Family courts: Feminism wont touch this "equality" with a 50 ft pole.

Feminists like to say they fight against these issues but when Men's Centers open up to help men in need they are actively opposing them. Feminism fights "toxic masculinity" when it benefits women, not men.

iainmf · 2015-01-14T10:57:43+00:00

You shouldn't ignore the the 'socially-constructed' attitudes that describe the masculine gender role as protector, provider, fixer, maker, organizer, leader, who gets shit done and doesn't complain.

You also have to consider that many women want a man who can protect them (use violence), doesn't whine about their feelings ( unemotional), and women want to be sexually desired and the man to act on it that desire ( sexually aggressive, see Fifty Shades of Grey). IE being violent, unemotional, and sexually aggressive isn't inherently bad.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-01-13T23:33:14+00:00

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xynomaster · 2015-01-14T00:14:22+00:00

Toxic masculinity is definitely real, and in my opinion it's one of the most serious issues men face.

The way I understand it is this - there are certain ideas that people associate with "being a man". While these ideas as a whole are frustrating, when taken to an extreme they can become harmful, or "toxic". This includes a number of things.

-Teaching boys that they must be stoic and refuse to show emotion. This is not mentally or emotionally healthy and can lead to violent outbursts and self-harm or even suicide. For an example of this, look at any news article or discussion where a father with a young son dies. You will always see comments or discussion telling the kid that he has to "be the man of the house" or "be strong for his mother/sisters".

-Teaching boys to resolve conflicts, particularly with other males, with violence. The idea that "honor" is a real thing that matters and that, if someone insults your honor, you are justified in responding with physical force. The idea that, if you are opposed to violence or afraid of it, you are worthy of shame and "not a real man". Feminists tend to particularly care about this one because its difficult to restrain a brainwashing in support of violence to target a specific gender, and often it will spill over in the form of so-called "violence against women" as well.

-The idea that it is a man's responsibility to sacrifice his life (or, in less drastic scenarios, comfort) for a woman or child, and to always be the hero.

The only place your friend may be wrong is in his argument that feminists fight against toxic masculinity. They do, a little, but really only in the areas it directly impacts women (such as domestic or sexual violence).

TRPACC · 2015-01-14T13:18:06+00:00

Its things like "man up", "a real man doesn't ask for for help", real men are stoic, use violence etc.

You are better off asking questions like that in /r/feminismformen, mra's tend to have no idea what feminist terms mean.

Title	What is toxic masculinity?
Author	wilyame
Upvotes	5
Comments	66
Date	January 13, 2015 11:32 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2sc73k/what_is_toxic_masculinity/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-is-toxic-masculinity.990579 https://theredarchive.com/post/990579

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