If one of feminists' goals is to get rid of the expected gender roles and one of MRM's complaints is that men are expected to suck it up, wouldn't that mean that we would benefit from feminism?

the_omega99 · 2014-08-18T00:29:00+00:00

In order to get rid of gender roles feminists would have to

Advocate for male reproductive rights.
Advocate for gender neutral laws in regards to domestic violence and rape.
Advocate for fair and equitable treatment in family courts.
Advocate for equal sentencing under the law.
Advocate for women to be included in the selective service.
Stop the rape/pedo hysteria that paints men as the primary perpetrators of sex crimes.
Allow women to be criticized in the media without having a conniption, and advocate for men to have a fair say in the gender discourse.

These are just off the top of my head; now ask any feminist you know if they agree with these points, and if they don't, then they don't really want to get rid of gender roles, they just pay lip service to the concept.

Gophal · 2014-08-17T23:53:20+00:00

That's what feminists say, it isn't what they actually mean though.

They claim to want to end gender roles, but then they go on to viciously police the male gender role, typically by use of shaming tactics. Go into any feminist circle and question their narrative, even in a nice way, and it won't be long until they start implying that you are a virgin, that you are a loser.. they will start sentences with "oh honey...." etc.

And that's before we even consider all the other harm that they do. Even if they DID want to end the male gender role (they don't, notice how they are conspicuously silent on all of the issues that disadvantage men), it wouldn't compare to all the harm they do in other areas.

If feminists wanted to end the male gender role, why do they oppose shared parenting legislation? Why do feminist organisations want to maintain the status quo of women being the assumed care giver in child custody cases? Again, they will say they don't, because it doesn't fit with their narrative of "feminism helps men too!", but look at their actions, and you will see that they actually do everything in their power to police the male gender role and make sure that it is perpetuated.

Why are feminist organisations and their members the biggest supporters of the Duluth domestic violence model and the "dominant aggressor" policies that have come from that?

You have to look at their actions, not at their words.

aussietoads · 2014-08-18T00:07:55+00:00

Yes, Feminists want to get rid of gender roles - for women. Men, no so much.

levelate · 2014-08-18T00:06:44+00:00

the words and actions of feminists contradict each other.

they say that they are anti gender roles, but as soon as a male brings up any issue where they feel that they have problems, they are met with a barrage of 'male tears' and other derivatives of that argument.

feminists are against gender roles....for women, men just have to suck it up.

DavidByron2 · 2014-08-17T23:59:32+00:00

Feminism CLAIMS to be against gender roles but in fact they very heavily push for gender roles for men. Roles like rapist, pedophile, thug, racist privileged asshole or deadbeat.

MRSPArchiver · 2014-08-17T23:42:39+00:00

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Lobstermansunion · 2014-08-18T00:56:05+00:00

Feminists are perfectly happy with men being the disposable pack-mules, protectors, and providers. They only want women to evolve their gender roles .

ThePigmanAgain · 2014-08-18T01:04:54+00:00

That is a very big "if."

TheRabid · 2014-08-18T03:47:19+00:00

"If one of feminists' goals is to get rid of the expected gender roles"

Except that's not what feminists do.

Hence, draconian domestic violence laws that assume female innocence and that assume male guilt, sexual assault legislation that is predicated on the idea that men can rape but women cannot.

Basically, women rights, men have responsibilities. That's what they advocate for.

avantvernacular · 2014-08-18T14:20:07+00:00

Yes it would mean that. However, much of the reason the MRM exists is because of feminism's colossal failure at alleviating men's gender roles, particularly in comparison to what they have done for women.

2014-08-20T13:42:44+00:00

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johnmarkley · 2014-08-18T05:11:55+00:00

ghebert001 · 2014-08-18T14:28:16+00:00

Judge feminists by their actions not their words. The only time you'll find feminism ever being about equality is in the dictionary.

2014-08-18T14:50:20+00:00

If they actually meant it, yes.

They do not mean it. Perhaps they think that they do, but when they talk about women being able to leave behind gender roles, well, they actually care what women mean by that.

When they care about men leaving behind their gender roles... they still only care what women mean by that. So they fight for men to be able to act girly, but they don't fight for men to be able to leave behind the stifling gender roles -- that men exist solely to provide resources and to sacrifice ourselves for them. They fight for alimony, not against it. They say that if we see a woman getting harassed, that we have to get involved -- risking our lives to protect a woman we don't even know.

They don't really mean what they say.

2014-08-18T14:56:30+00:00

It should be noted that any attempt at conversation on /r/FEMRAdebates is a waste of time.

Neither side feels free enough to interact. and 'Feminism' can't be held to account for anything so long as even a single self-identified feminist disagrees.

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