~ archived since 2018 ~

Men need patriarchy

Gomdofthefall · 2022-12-19T17:59:18+00:00

All the hemming and hawing and panicking about muh lost and unproductive men, it's all quite simply why it's happening: Men need to be...

Gomdofthefall

December 19, 2022

5 upvotes

/r/AllPillDebate

Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB

Support the archive

Everything here was supposed to disappear. Banned subreddits, deleted communities, cancelled blogs — much of what is archived here survives nowhere else.

It stays free — no paywall, no account — for the next man who comes looking, the way it was free for you.

I pay for the servers, the storage and the bandwidth myself. If you want this record still standing in ten years, become one of the people who keeps it online.

Support the archive

Post Information

Title	Men need patriarchy
Author	Gomdofthefall
Upvotes	5
Comments	83
Date	December 19, 2022 5:59 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/AllPillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/zpyl97/men_need_patriarchy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/men-need-patriarchy.1143332 https://theredarchive.com/post/1143332

Comments

[–]debatelord_1 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]rurunoa 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy -2 points-1 points0 points 3 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]TaxNegative161 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]TaxNegative161 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]TaxNegative161 -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheProkopton -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheProkopton1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheProkopton0 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheProkopton0 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheProkopton1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TaxNegative161 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anti_Thing 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW (hit the wall at age 0) 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]RatDontPanic1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall0 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]RatDontPanic1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Anti_Thing 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anti_Thing 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anti_Thing 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anti_Thing 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RatDontPanicAverage Unfrustrated Chump 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eyesofmalice 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eyesofmalice 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Men still have the supremacy over women, the 80%\20% shows that,.

Besides ideolozing a time when hitting women was commonplace and racism was even worse shows that at best you’re being oblivious and at worst you just want to beat women and say the n word.

What feminism did cant be undone, feminism simply showed men that women simply didn’t like us enough, and that if it weren’t for violence, they simply wouldn’t give the time of day to 80% of males. Thinking that we can’t go back to a more conservative time will destroy that realization is a joke. Back then your mom and my mom only tolerates our dads because of the fear of physical violence and destitution, but that isn’t love.

Which is another tough reality that we must face, love is only possible for 20% of people. Back then people weren’t more in love, a staple of that time were jokes about how much men and women secretly hated their spouse, or cheated all the time. At least now you have the knowledge to avoid being a cuck.

Face reality dude, take the black pill. It’s over , it has always been.

If you want proof just read the odyssey, one of the earliest texts we had , and see for yourself what was the fate of the average man in the most ruthless time of the patriarchy.

[–]Anti_Thing -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eyesofmalice 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Outright violence is necessary, emotional control and the restriction of a gender are forms of violence, and última they need to be reinforced either through direct or indirect violence. Besides is ludicrous to think that an evangelical Christian could even fathom to have love be controlled socially when loved is supposed to be a gift from God. Saying that we need to force people into loving one another is paganism, since it is tempting God btw.

You can read Kierkegaard if you ever feel like it for more on that. Anyway college degrees and careers aren’t a marker of critical thinking in today’s world anyway, never has been I’d argue, and lukacs wud agree with me on that.

Again settling I fine, but deluding yourself into thinking that through control you can get love is just blasphemous. If you’re really a Christian you should be ashamed of yourself for spreading such downright pagan worldview.

[–]Anti_Thing 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

ALL societies exert control, ESPECIALLY modern feminist society in how it pressures women into idolizing formal education & masculine careers above all else. There's nothing violent about a properly run church. You seem to have an extremely broad view of violence that includes literally all form of social organization. According to the Bible, love is a duty. The Bible sets out a system of social control that the church must use, & on top of that there's the informal social control that all groups of people have, including your own family & your own social circles. The Bible demands rigorous controls on sexuality.

I never claimed that college degrees or careers are markers of critical thinking, in fact I think they're overrated. I was merely pushing back against the notion that devoutly religious women tend to settle for their looksmatch & statusmatch simply because they're poor, stupid, & risk physical violence for not doing so. The fact is that average women are capable of choosing average men & loving them for the rest of their lives, all of their own free will. No violence is necessary for this, only socialization into the right values as part of a supportive but disciplined community.

Through Christian control, people are obligated to love one another. "Getting love" through control is a crude way of looking at it. We simply have strict values, though if course we're still normal people who want sex & children. I've seen with my own eyes that this results in over 80% of women marrying fairly average guys & loving them deeply. Your 20/80 observation may be true for modern mainstream Western society (I'm not sure it is but I'm willing to accept that for now for argument's sake), but in my experience it just doesn't apply to the small minority of very devout religious people, & based on my experiences & studies I don't think it necessarily applies to traditional/tribal societies either, though of course different tribes have vastly different traditions around sexuality.

[–]Eyesofmalice 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I agree that all societies except control, and I believe modern women are in certain ways very privileged, you won’t be able to strip that privilege without violence. If you are able to strip it in a non violent way, the the privilege originally laid on your side. For example, I can’t just decide that a rich person is going to give me their money and that’s that, for that I have to exert violence in order to destroy privilege. Women came to acquire some privileges merely accidentally simply because capitalism needed for social relations to dilute in order to effectively have moving capital that reign above traditional structures. Marx famously says “in capitalism all that’s solid evaporates into air” The patriarchy didn’t survive capitalism in the state in which it had reigned for centuries, nor is current feminism the same feminism we saw in for example the Soviet Union, right now privilege is championed by a white rich elite who can desecrate all forms of social structures in order to increase their capital.

If you want to establish a Christian society you necessarily need to dismantle capitalism, and that can’t be done through non violent means. If it were possible then Jesus would have fallen to the temptations, it is implied that the world and nature are in such a state of sin that it’s impossible to achieve the kingdom of god on earth.

Being capable of something doesn’t mean for that thing to be good, people is capable to live happily while being functioning alcohólica and raging mysoginists, so the argument for happiness is pure propaganda in not buying. We shouldn’t strive for happiness, we should strive for truth and let happiness be a byproduct. If we assume women have enough power to let themselves be influenced, then the people who’s doing the influencing are the people in power, if they’re the ones influencing themselves then only themselves can achieve their redemption. Because it would be ludicrous to think that they have to be forced to make you happy and then hope that they find happiness in the process, they have to choose that freely and voluntarily, and have to do it while having a historical disadvantage. You sometimes sound as if women weren’t beaten on the regular only forty years ago, it’s a very postmodern mindset though, it’s thinking that the movement of technological and spiritual progress is followed by historical progress, but as Hegel notes, sometimes the spirit doesn’t follow historical development.

And also why is people so enamored with pre modern societies anyway? You know that those traditional Americans from the fifties were in favor of segregation, right? An alarming amount were fine with torturing Japanese people to death, we’re only a few years removed from supposedly rational and Christian leaders being ok with bombing a country back to the stone age. I work with hospitals as a translator for example, the amount of women and kids who are charged by Christian hospitals exorbitant amounts of money for healthcare and who live in squalor is staggering, so don’t come here pretending as if people in the fifties were these mythic quasy classical era heroes who had achieved societal perfection, they hadn’t.

Go watch an interview or a reality show from the time, and face the horror of a people who were as ignorant, violent and authoritarian as we are. Hell, weren’t there persecution and spying in the fifties for the sole mention of being a communist? Weren’t the 50s kid the ones who dropped napalm on civilians in Vietnam??? And you’re telling me those are the moral champions we should follow? Get a fucking grip.

[–]Anti_Thing 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Eyesofmalice 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MicrosoftOSX 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]TsugaC1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (22 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]TsugaC1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]TsugaC1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]TsugaC1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]TsugaC1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Anti_Thing1 point 3 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Anti_Thing 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anti_Thing 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TsugaC1 points 3 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Anti_Thing 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]OberOst 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HateSpeechFanBoy -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Odd-Luck7658 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]FortniteAbobusWhitePill 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]FortniteAbobusWhitePill 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rurunoa 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Gomdofthefall[S] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]rurunoa 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Glad-Discount-4761 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link