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On Marriage

December 13, 2022
Crosspost "The Bored Sex - Women, more than men, tend to feel stultified by long-term exclusivity—despite having been taught that they were designed for it. - My reply to Infovore777" from /r/MensRights:

I saw this comment by Infovore777

One of the major reasons women stop putting out in marriage is not cause they are narcissists. It is because they lose their sex drive due to eating the Standard Ameican Diet. Without a sex drive they cannot have sex with their husband same way as a limp dick cannot fuck. Women have a different relationship with arousal but it is still very important and expresses itself strongly preventing sexual acts. Where as men stop functioning on an erectile level women stop functioning on the level of being capable of being aroused.

And remembered this article I came across once that basically said that women lose sex drive from monogamy itself and thought that it would be interesting for everyone here to see it.


Some interesting quotes from it

Andrew Gotzis, a Manhattan psychiatrist with an extensive psychotherapy practice, has been treating a straight couple, whom we’ll call Jane and John, for several years. They have sex about three times a week, which might strike many as enviable, considering that John and Jane—who are in their 40s—have been together for nearly two decades. Based on numbers alone, one might wonder why they need couples counseling at all.

But only one of them is happy with the state of play. And it isn’t Jane.

“The problem is not that they are functionally unable to have sex, or to have orgasms. Or frequency. It’s that the sex they’re having isn’t what she wants,” Gotzis told me in a recent phone conversation. And like other straight women he sees, “she’s confused and demoralized by it. She thinks there’s something wrong with her.” John, meanwhile, feels criticized and inadequate. Mostly he can’t understand why, if his wife is having sex with him and having orgasms, she wants more. Or different.


Despite “fears of seeming sex addicted, unfaithful, or whorish” (Gotzis doesn’t like these terms, but they speak to his patient’s anxieties, he explained), Jane has tried to tell John, in therapy and outside of it, what she’s after. She wants to want John and be wanted by him in that can’t-get-enough-of-each-other-way experts call “limerence”—the initial period of a relationship when it’s all new and hot. Jane has bought lingerie and booked hotel stays. She has suggested more radical-seeming potential fixes, too, like opening up the marriage.


Although most people in sexual partnerships end up facing the conundrum biologists call “habituation to a stimulus” over time, a growing body of research suggests that heterosexual women, in the aggregate, are likely to face this problem earlier in the relationship than men. And that disparity tends not to even out over time. In general, men can manage wanting what they already have, while women struggle with it.


Marta Meana of the University of Nevada at Las Vegas spelled it out simply in an interview with me at the annual Society for Sex Therapy and Research conference in 2017. “Long-term relationships are tough on desire, and particularly on female desire,” she said. I was startled by her assertion, which contradicted just about everything I’d internalized over the years about who and how women are sexually. Somehow I, along with nearly everyone else I knew, was stuck on the idea that women are in it for the cuddles as much as the orgasms, and—besides—actually require emotional connection and familiarity to thrive sexually, whereas men chafe against the strictures of monogamy.


“Moving In With Your Boyfriend Can Kill Your Sex Drive” was how Newsweek distilled a 2017 study of more than 11,500 British adults aged 16 to 74. It found that for “women only, lack of interest in sex was higher among those in a relationship of over one year in duration,” and that “women living with a partner were more likely to lack interest in sex than those in other relationship categories.” A 2012 study of 170 men and women aged 18 to 25 who were in relationships of up to nine years similarly found that women’s sexual desire, but not men’s, “was significantly and negatively predicted by relationship duration after controlling for age, relationship satisfaction, and sexual satisfaction.”


Two oft-cited German longitudinal studies, published in 2002 and 2006, show female desire dropping dramatically over 90 months, while men’s holds relatively steady. (Tellingly, women who didn’t live with their partners were spared this amusement-park-ride-like drop—perhaps because they were making an end run around overfamiliarity.) And a Finnish seven-year study of more than 2,100 women, published in 2016, revealed that women’s sexual desire varied depending on relationship status: Those in the same relationship over the study period reported less desire, arousal, and satisfaction. Annika Gunst, one of the study’s co-authors, told me that she and her colleagues initially suspected this might be related to having kids. But when the researchers controlled for that variable, it turned out to have no impact.


Many women want monogamy. It’s a cozy arrangement, and one our culture endorses, to put it mildly. But wanting monogamy isn’t the same as feeling desire in a long-term monogamous partnership. The psychiatrist and sexual-health practitioner Elisabeth Gordon told me that in her clinical experience, as in the data, women disproportionately present with lower sexual desire than their male partners of a year or more, and in the longer term as well. “The complaint has historically been attributed to a lower baseline libido for women, but that explanation conveniently ignores that women regularly start relationships equally as excited for sex.” Women in long-term, committed heterosexual partnerships might think they’ve “gone off” sex—but it’s more that they’ve gone off the same sex with the same person over and over.


What does it all mean for Jane and the other straight women who feel stultified by long-term exclusivity, in spite of having been taught that they were designed for it and are naturally inclined toward it? What are we to make of the possibility that women, far from anxious guardians of monogamy, might on the whole be more like its victims?


“When couples want to remain in a monogamous relationship, a key component of treatment … is to help couples add novelty,” Gordon advised. Tammy Nelson, a sex therapist and the author of The New Monogamy and When You’re the One Who Cheats, concurs**: “Women are the primary consumers of sex-related technology and lubricants, massage oil, and lingerie, not men.”**


Of course, as Jane’s example shows, lingerie might not do the trick. Nelson explains that if “their initial tries don’t work, [women] will many times shut down totally or turn outward to an affair or an online ‘friend,’ creating … a flirty texting or social-media relationship.” When I asked Gotzis where he thinks John and Jane are headed, he told me he is not sure that they will stay together. In an upending of the basic narrative about the roles that men and women play in a relationship, it would be Jane’s thirst for adventure and Jane’s struggles with exclusivity that tear them apart. Sure, women cheating is nothing new—it’s the stuff of Shakespeare and the blues. But refracted through data and anecdotal evidence, Jane seems less exceptional and more an Everywoman, and female sexual boredom could almost pass for the new beige.


It’s not uncommon for women to let their straight partners play in a “monogamy gray zone,” to give guys access to tensional outlets that allow them to cheat without really cheating. “Happy ending” massages, oral sex at bachelor parties, lap dances, escorts at conferences … influenced by ubiquitous pop-cultural cues, many people believe that men need these opportunities for recreational “sorta sex” because “it’s how men are.” It’s how women are, too, it seems.


Women cannot be pigeonholed; the glory of human sexuality is its variation and flexibility. So when we speak of desire in the future, we should acknowledge that the fairer sex thirsts for the frisson of an encounter with someone or something new as much as, if not more, than men do—and that they could benefit from a gray-zone hall pass, too.

Basically, its seems that women lose sex drives for their husbands as the marriage or long term relationship goes on but when they are free to have sex with other people, the sex drive comes back as if it never left.

Could this also be the fault of diet? Sure. But it seems like its also in-built.

Seems to also be matched by this tv show from Netflix called Sex/Life:

1] Sex/Life is a show about a married woman, Billie, who has the perfect husband, Cooper, and 2 children from her ex-boyfriend, Brad.

2] She starts randomly thinking about Brad and all of the sex she had with him and writing it down in a journal.

3] Cooper eventually reads this journal and is extremely hurt by it. Cooper decides to try and rekindle the passion by one-upping the stories of Brad.

4] Despite all Cooper's efforts she still thinks and starts talking/meeting up with Brad.

5] Cooper does everything Billie agrees to, even a swingers party, gets his dick sucked by another woman, and protects Billie from needing to fuck another swinger, Billie still can't stop thinking about Brad.

6] Cooper breaks out in tears and falls sickly, Billie tells him it's a fresh start, and goes to a couples therapy seminar.

7] After hearing the lecturer saying it's okay to be yourself, she goes to Brad, says she won't leave her husband, and has sex with him.

A comment from youtube about this show:

A show about how a terrible person makes her loving husband extremley insecure about himself, and cheats on him even when he is trying his best to make her happy just because she wants some adrenaline and adventure

Oh yea, IIRC, this Brad has a big dick. So yeah.

Posted by tiredfromlife2019 | 26 September 2021 | Link

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Post Information
Title On Marriage
Author no_bling_just_ding
Upvotes 3
Comments 7
Date December 13, 2022 7:17 PM UTC (3 months ago)
Subreddit /r/AllPillDebate
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/AllPillDebate/on-marriage.1143988
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/AllPillDebate/comments/zl470r/on_marriage/

[–]RedditsOlderBrah 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Wow, I really learned a lot from these emotionally immature adults attempting to navigate long term intimate relationships and failing hilariously.

[–]FortniteAbobusWhitePill 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Beta buxx, alpha fuxx.

[–]FishTank34 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Marriage is over in 2022

[–]SwimmingTheme3736 0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy Link

If I wasn’t happily married when I stumbled across Reddit I think this place would of made me too scared to ever try

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

i think the concerns stated in the op mostly weigh on men

[–]SwimmingTheme3736 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Not just this post lol, everything on here makes for such depressing reading.

[–]no_bling_just_dingself-aware MSTOW[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

i advise you to leave voluntarily

seems like this sub and ppd is half angry bitter copers who lash out at the rest (wouldnt want to name and shame some people here) and half straight up depressed people (me and tropeland/lainpiller, kokorwqac/puddingdesperation among others)

i am the first 3 seconds of this video but unironically

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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