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If it isn't already, please make this scientific article about how little looks matter for romantic success a part of the First Aid Kit!

Fit-Collection2908

December 14, 2024
20 upvotes
/r/ExRedPill

The article: https://datepsychology.com/male-attractiveness-and-sexual-partner-count/

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Post Information
Title If it isn't already, please make this scientific article about how little looks matter for romantic success a part of the First Aid Kit!
Author

Fit-Collection2908

Upvotes 20
Comments 33
Date December 14, 2024 12:57 PM UTC
(1 year ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/1he2b9p/if_it_isnt_already_please_make_this_scientific/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/if-it-isnt-already-please-make-this-scientific.1538464
https://theredarchive.com/post/1538464

Comments

[–]PutsWomenOnPedestal 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago (30 children) | Copy Link

I really like the analysis. It is rare to see this level of numerical content in the discussions here. But keep in mind that it also goes against a key dogma of this sub: that objective scale of attractiveness does not exist. The article is full of plots with an objective axis of attraction, lol.

[–]Soft-Neat8117 -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (29 children) | Copy Link

It also says that unattractive men are pretty much shit out of luck if they want casual sex.

[–]GladysSchwartz23 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That is not what the article says at all

[–]Majestic_Practice672 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What? Where did it say that?

[–]PutsWomenOnPedestal 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (26 children) | Copy Link

This sub needs to make up its mind about how subjective attraction is.

[–]Soft-Neat8117 -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago (25 children) | Copy Link

People are hypocrites. They say one thing and then act the opposite way.

Lots of people out there say "looks don't matter", but would be quick to shoot down an ugly/short/fat person who hit on them.

"Looks are subjective", then why does science dispute this? Why is it that pretty much all models, actors and other people who can make money off of their looks all look the same? They wouldn't be able to make money off of their appearance if looks were really as subjective as people claim.

Sure, there may be a handful of outliers in the world who don't find these people attractive, but that doesn't really make a difference.

[–]XhaLaLa 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago (23 children) | Copy Link

“Subjective” doesn’t mean “preferences are evenly distributed amongst the possible options”. Something can be subjective and still have more and less popular options. Looks obviously matter, they just aren’t the only thing that matters and they don’t elicit a consistently predictable response. Life is nuanced.

u/PutsWomenOnPedestal

[–]PutsWomenOnPedestal -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I agree that looks are subjective in an absolute sense, since good looks are just a trick evolution plays on us. In truth there is no beauty. What I mean by subjective in this context is within the human species. Do most people find the same features attractive ? Beauty standards would seem to imply so. In the context of the article linked by OP, an axis of physical attractiveness makes no sense unless there is an implicit assumption that in the context of humans there is an absolute scale for looks (regardless of whether that’s true or not, the article is meaningless without that assumption)

[–]XhaLaLa 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You may have misunderstood me. I am speaking within the context of the human species and saying that there being popular features does not mean beauty is not subjective, because the word doesn’t preclude that. Food preferences are also subjective — there are foods I love that others I know find extremely unappealing, and a smaller number of foods in the other direction — and there are foods/ingredients that are broadly popular.

The existence of more and less popular traits/combinations of traits tells us there’s an unequal distribution of preferences. That means that some people are going to have a larger pool of people who prefer their appearance. What it doesn’t mean is that everyone prefers or appreciates the more popular anything, nor that no one prefers or appreciates the least popular anything, and that is why it is subjective.

[–]PutsWomenOnPedestal -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That’s fair. It’s probably a bell curve distribution or something. But then why is there an axis of attractiveness in the OP article? Is that what most people find attractive? It’s not well defined (or maybe i have to refer to the original studies), which is a pitfall for such articles. An axis of attraction assumes a universal standard of attractiveness and if that’s far-fetched then the article is meaningless (though interesting).

[–]XhaLaLa 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I didn’t post the article, nor speak to it, so I’m not sure why you think I should explain or defend it. Generally speaking, though, I think when research looks at more or less “attractive” people/features, they’re merely referring to that distribution of preferences, such that being higher in more people’s preference rankings = “more attractive”, rather than claiming some objective quantitative attractiveness scale.

[–]Soft-Neat8117 -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Looks are the only thing that matters to me (well, it's 80% looks at least) and unfortunately I don't have the looks required to attract women that I find attractive.

[–]Emotional-Log1277 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Can you help me understand why you value looks more than other qualities to that extent? I’m not trying to be argumentative, I promise. I’m just really wanting to understand.

[–]Soft-Neat8117 -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I'm not entirely sure. If I had to guess it's probably a combination of genetic wiring, excessive media consumption, lack of decent women in my area and low self esteem.

[–]Emotional-Log1277 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Gotcha. That makes sense. For what it’s worth, at least a couple of those are things you can work on over time. ☺️

I’m not saying you shouldn’t want an attractive partner— but it’s okay to also want someone you actually get along with and like spending time with, too!

I think sometimes we set ourselves goals that are intentionally unattainable when we feel undeserving— sort of like the low self-esteem you mentioned. Like believing “i only like women who are too hot for me” so it’s less of a blow if it doesn’t work out? Or even a reason not to try? No idea if that’s the case for you or not of course. Just food for thought. It’s okay to want someone who you are attracted to physically and who you really enjoy spending time with.

Best of luck to you. ☺️

[–]Soft-Neat8117 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It’s okay to want someone who you are attracted to physically

You're one of the few people who say this. Almost everyone else makes it out like wanting someone who's physically attractive is horrible.

but it’s okay to also want someone you actually get along with and like spending time with, too!

That's the problem. I've never met a woman that I enjoy spending time with. At best, I've encountered a few that I could tolerate having a 20 second "Hi, how are you?" type of conversation, but nothing more.

[–]Emotional-Log12772 points 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Oh yeah, that would make things harder. That’s so interesting. I’m curious, do you like men that you’ve met? I’m trying to understand if it’s something specific to women that you don’t like or if it’s just people in general, including women.

I guess I can see how if you don’t get along with anyone, attractiveness would really be the only remaining factor to consider.

[–]Soft-Neat81171 point 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I just don't like people in general. There's only one man I've met that I really like and enjoy spending time with (my cousin). Everyone else I just tolerate.

It's just a bit easier to deal with men because they are more friendly towards me and more likely to help me out, whereas no woman under the age of 50 will even speak to me and the women at my job tend to boss me around a lot and ask me to do stuff for them a lot but rarely do anything to help me. Plus, these women gossip a lot. Talk all kinds of shit about their so-called friends but are all "honey and sweetie" to their face. I'm sure a lot of men do this too, but I see it with women far more often.

Maybe it's just my area. I live in a rural area after all and most rural folks are pretty much the same. But there aren't really any big cities near me. There's one smaller city that's mostly just a glorified tourist town that has all the big city problems with few, if any, of the big city benefits.

[–]Emotional-Log12773 points 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I wonder if there could also be something of a feedback loop going on…? I only ask because there is some of this that I really identify with from when I was younger.

I was super insecure when I was in my late teens and early 20s. And because of that I just sort of perpetually assumed no one would like me and, at the time, just sort of defaulted to not liking much about anyone else either. Because I was on the outside, I wasn’t really in on any of the fun or jokes or warmth or anything. People didnt talk to me much. I was pretty intimidated by a lot of them, but also secretly a bit envious and lonely.

I had sort of an ah-ha moment when I ran into someone from school years later and I was friendly to him. He said “I’m surprised you are being so nice— in high school I sort of got the feeling that you didn’t like me”.

And I was so surprised. I thought I had been so much less than him— uglier, less popular, whatever— that he probably either hated me or didn’t know I existed. And the whole time he was thinking, “wow, this girl just doesn’t like me for some reason. Whatever.” So he avoided me. And I saw him avoid me and it just reinforced everything I had assumed about him.

I think when we feel insecure, we are less warm to those around us, and they notice and become less warm in return. And then we see that and go, “Yup. I called it.” And then it turns into this worsening loop.

I found that when I set out with the intention to discover things about people to truly like, and when I try to ditch the assumption that they won’t like me, things generally go a lot better. I mean, never perfect. There are still people who I would rather not spend a lot of time with. And I’m sure there are still some people who don’t like me. But overall, I like most people, and we get along well. It was just such a shift.

Anyways, sorry for the novel. Especially if it doesn’t apply to you. But reading some of what you were saying, it just felt really familiar to me.

Best of luck!!

[–]XhaLaLa 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (10 children) | Copy Link

That is honestly astonishing to me, and seems virtually guaranteed to land you in a miserable relationship with someone you don’t like or share enough with to have good sex, let alone build a life with, but I guess do what works for you. That does not seem to be how it functions for anyone I know personally and well enough to have a sense, but anecdotes are anecdotes.

[–]Soft-Neat8117 -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago (9 children) | Copy Link

So what's the alternative? Being with someone I can't get hard for without Viagra and a blindfold. I'm not interested in a sexless relationship.

[–]XhaLaLa 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I mean, if that’s just how your attraction works, I don’t know that there is an alternative, it’s just unfortunate is all.

[–]Soft-Neat8117 -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Why does everyone act like you have to choose between good looks and good personality and that it's impossible to have both?

[–]XhaLaLa3 points 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don’t think that, so I couldn’t tell you. A person’s looks are generally not a great barometer for their personality, values, etc.

[–]Soft-Neat81171 point 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I disagree. A person's appearance says a lot more about their personality than most people think or want to admit.

Most "ugly" people aren't ugly because of genetics. They're ugly because of things like bad hygiene, bad diets, lack of exercise, dressing like shit, drinking, smoking and doing drugs (which cause you to age prematurely, especially in excess) and so forth.

[–]Excellent-Sail94592 points 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Do you consider yourself attractive? I can see why women may not like you. The biggest reason red pillers seem to be single is because of their attitudes and ideologies. It’s a turn off and usually extremely hypocritical. You can’t be shallow as fuck and turn around complaining about women you may be interested in also being shallow af.

[–]Soft-Neat81171 point 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No I am not attractive in any way. I can't force myself to be attracted to women in my league anymore than those women can force themselves to be attracted to me. I just hate myself for letting myself come to this and wish I could take a pill that would make me asexual because I'm tired of wanting what I can't have.

Women can't help what they're attracted to.

[–]XhaLaLa1 point 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yepp, it’s a crapshoot. Because appearance us simply not a great barometer for a person’s personality, values etc., and we have far better indicators. Thus why a person’s attractions and romantic interest being almost exclusively determined by appearance seems like a rough way to go through life for anyone who wants a long-term romantic partnership.

[–]Soft-Neat81171 point 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Who said I wanted a long-term romantic partnership? I just want to have sex with beautiful women to boost my ego and make myself feel like a real man.

I've never wanted to get married nor do I have much interest in romance or having kids. Maybe that will change one day, but I seriously doubt it.

[–]XhaLaLa1 point 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Technically? No one, including me. I explicitly added that sentence because I didn’t want to assume and because it’s not really an issue if you’re not (unless you choose your friends the same way, of course). Anyway, you’re pretty unpleasant to interact with and your first paragraph makes me think you don’t particularly view women as actual people the same way you’re a person, so I don’t anticipate interacting with you further here.

[–]PutsWomenOnPedestal 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sadly I must agree about actors and models. I grew up in India and it’s embarrassing how almost every female lead is selected based on Eurocentric beauty standards with some differences due to culture. This has been going on for atleast 30 years. As you say that wouldn’t happen unless there is a bias towards specific looks in the population.

The people who insist that attraction is 100% subjective also use words like “conventionally attractive”. Go figure.

[–]Stock_Praline9692 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Looks is something very subjective and changes depending on culture and time. I like to say that beauty comes in all shapes, sizes, colors and ages. Many people are brainwashed by mainstream media lies which only purpose is to create some imaginary problem to sell its solution through cosmetics and fashion. Do not believe TV.

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