What does this quote mean?

creamerfam5 · 2024-05-31T17:35:27+00:00

Be their friend. Value them for the unique individual that they are, for their unique thoughts and perspectives that they bring to this world. Respect that they are full people in their own right independent of their relationship to you or men.

For example, being "friend-zoned" isn't a problem if you value having women as friends.

To show a woman that you are attracted and interested in them as more than a friend, first it really helps to do the above, to value women as people in their own right and not just for the fact that they might fill a relationship-shaped hole in your psyche. Then a woman you are attracted to and interested in would actually feel that you desire them, for the unique and wonderful person that they are, not for what they can give or provide for you. Then, give her a real choice. She may or may not reciprocate the attraction, and that is her right, just as it would be your right to reciprocate or not any woman's interest in you. She is not beholden to you for you expressing interest in her. She has the right to choose. If you truly believe and internalize all of this, you will not be disrespecting or inconveniencing any woman you may be interested in.

GladysSchwartz23 · 2024-05-31T16:31:25+00:00

There are definitely men to whom this quote applies, to a lesser or greater degree, and there's a lot of denial about it on all sides. It's certainly not universal, but it's also not uncommon. Some of the most obvious expressions of this:

the cliche of the guy complaining about his wife -- it exists in popular culture, and it exists in real life. This guy's real confidantes are his bros.
the guy who is physically and visually quite attracted to his partner but does not want to be seen in public with her or compares her continually to "better" women. He'll say it's about being unattracted to her, but he's very enthusiastic about their sex life. The problem here is that his partner is not attractive enough to impress other men, and this bothers him. He may be quite happy with her as a person, but she's not enough of a status object.

(I've dated quite a few of this kind of guy, unfortunately, and I would argue that few men in our society are able to entirely separate themselves from the mindset of woman as status signifier.)

Again, not universal, but it would be silly to deny entirely that this happens.

QBaseX · 2024-06-24T12:21:19+00:00

That quote is definitely true of far too many men (you just need to listen to the way they speak about women). It's a thought trap that a lot of men fall into, and you should consider it, roll it around your head and see whether it fits. If it does fit, then that's a problem you need to work on. If it doesn't fit, then rejoice that you managed to escape this one, and move on.

From what you've said, it's probably not true of you. That's good.

luridlurker · 2024-05-31T16:20:23+00:00

Marilyn Frye is 1) outdated and 2) a radical. I think she's interesting to read to gain a historical perspective on the radical side of various cultural movements but she's not someone "a lot" of women know, care about or resonate with. The few times I've seen her referenced, it's by TERFs (trans exclusionary radical "feminists") who bastardize Frye's notion of separation of power for oppressed groups. Basically, very very fringe groups who don't even respect Frye enough to read her work in whole.

Her work cannot just be understood through an extracted quote. It seems you stumbled upon someone's fan page and mistook it for a common opinion. That's really not a great way to understand the nuance in the world.

EmphasisHuman6969 · 2024-07-09T01:55:13+00:00

That quote resonates with a lot of women because it seems like most men do not have female heroes or appreciate female creatives or intellectuals, whereas many women will often (and proudly) say that they admire male writers, musicians, politicians, or scientists. I know it sounds like a tired complaint, but a lot of pop culture stuff that has a large female fanbase is often derided as silly or stupid, whereas stuff with a predominantly male fanbase is seen as at worse neutral (although I think this is getting better). Some male-dominated fandoms or hobbies do get riffed on a lot, but I think this has mostly happened more in the past 10 years as people have become aware of this bias. (I also think that making fun of more male hobbies instead of fewer female ones is probably moving the needle in the wrong direction, but, that's a topic for another day.)

For example, there is [this](https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/jul/09/why-do-so-few-men-read-books-by-women) infamous study that says men tend to not read books written by women. Even if one wants to say that men are more likely to read books men like and women more likely to read books women like, the researchers found that male authors have a more even gender split among their audience.

Furthermore, there is the phenomenon of ["gender contamination"](https://www.forbes.com/sites/hbsworkingknowledge/2013/11/13/gender-contamination-why-men-prefer-products-untouched-by-women/) wherein a product or lifestyle that appeals more to women eventually loses male consumers because it is seen as off-putting because of its association with women.

However, I have to say it is heartening to read from both you and other people in the comments that you find many women admirable. However, I did once read a tweet (lol) that I found very illustrative of this issue; the user asked, "Can most men name a woman they admire whom they aren't related to or haven't dated?"

WetRockMineralSmell · 2025-11-08T01:30:13+00:00

this quote is talking about what society does to men. how it indoctrinates men. it’s the don’t throw like a girl, don’t cry like a girl, pussy as an insult etc etc etc. this is its most straightforward and obvious manifestation. also the phrase ole ball and chain, all the jokes on married people tiktok about nagging wife who makes husband miserable, etc etc etc. women’s stuff being viewed as lame. a lot of homophobia is actually rooted in this because a man behaving in an effeminate way is seen as so perverse because he’s choosing to act like someone men deem lesser i.e. a woman.

as a woman I have felt like guys I dated didn’t really like me but loved their boys many many times. once you see it, you’ll probably be amazed by how often you see it and notice it. it’s just like in the air we breathe, it’s so normalized we don’t notice even though like air, it’s all around us.

the fact that you’re starting to step outside of the indoctrination box means you are doing the work to start being your own person, who thinks for themself and sees women as people. it’s a never ending process. and even as women, it’s something we also have to do, because internalized misogyny exists. develop your friendships with women, and talk to them and listen with an open mind. develop friendships with men who aren’t misogynistic. develop friendship with people who are non binary or trans, they have unique insights that really help deconstruct a lot of the bullshit we’re all programmed into.

I wouldn’t stress about this if I were you, as in worry too much about am I still a misogynist?? instead just keep thinking and learning and working and growing. and the shifts and the enlargement of your thinking and humanity will happen naturally. you are doing great!

BennyFifeAudio · 2024-07-11T15:58:21+00:00

It's an analysis of the worst segment of masculinity.

Grouchy765 · 2024-07-15T17:25:41+00:00

I wouldn't over think it. This sounds like a bunch of bitter drivel. (I'm a woman btw). I tend to believe that in terms of fulfilling community men and women gain more from same sex friendships (not everyone but many) but that doesn't mean you aren't loving and dignifying to the opposite sex.

See women as people. See men as people. Dignify both. But it's okay if most of your friends are guys, it's also okay if your friends are girls.

Flaky_Armadillo8016 · 2026-01-27T11:01:02+00:00

Do you admire women you're not related to? Who provide no service for you? If so, this quote is not about you.

This quote is about the phenomenon. About how patriarchy socializes men. That doesn't mean all men are like this, just like despite being socialized to be docile, not all women are.

But this is something you can observe. Men looking up to other men, desiring their good opinion, the conformation of their place in social hierarchy. For example, men admiring musculature on other men. It is demonstrably not what most women are into, so pursuing this kind of physique is not partner selection, it's to impress other men.

grebette · 2026-04-10T15:05:10+00:00

Hey friend, digging this post up because I was looking for this quote and this was the first link that popped up.

Hope you’ve been doing well in life and that your deconstruction journey has been fruitful!

PutsWomenOnPedestal · 2024-05-31T16:24:40+00:00

By this logic any friendship is “homoerotic”, lol.

Personal_Dirt3089 · 2024-06-01T00:13:51+00:00

who are the silent downvoters here?

AssistTemporary8422 · 2024-05-31T16:43:04+00:00

I think this quote is absolute nonsense but may apply to some men.

The people whom they admire, respect, adore, revere, honor, whom they imitate,
whom they are willing to teach and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honor, reverence

Frye is confusing love with admiration. You can love a baby and not admire it because it hasn't accomplished anything of note yet and still developing. She is also doing a bit of mindreading and assumes men have never admitted a woman. There have been plenty of women I've admired for one reason or another.

and form profound attachments to

Men form profound attachments to women all the time. In fact men tend to have fewer friends and rely on their partners for their attachment than women do. We don't just do this with men.

idolize

When men are in love with a woman we tend to idolize her and believe she is perfect. We don't just do this with men.

Heterosexual male culture is homoerotic

This is a toxic belief that when men are friends with other men and really like each other that is sexual and gay. But when women bond with their female friends thats perfectly okay and not sexual or lesbian at all. This furthers the problem of men not having the social bonds they need to deal with mental health issues.

I've grown up around mainly women and have a fair few women I recognize as very admirable people, but this quote makes me question if I've ever been truly respectful to the women in my life.

Why is hearing a woman's opinion causing you to gaslight yourself and believe you didn't feel the admiration you actually felt? Do you assume women are always right and therefore you are wrong?

But I found this quote that a lot of women seem to resonate with

Those women have had very negative experiences with men and have formed some distorted negative beliefs about men. What they really need is therapy not racial feminism.

absolutebeginners · 2024-05-31T15:50:24+00:00

quote that a lot of women seem to resonate with

what are you talking about? who are "a lot of women" and how do you know? Whoever marilyn frye is sounds like a dumbass. Love does not equal "erotic".

awaywardgoat · 2024-11-13T21:25:23+00:00

🙄 stay away from women

Personal_Dirt3089 · 2024-05-31T17:29:57+00:00

I want you to get that quote now, stick it in the garbage, and never interact with it again.

You are trying to work on yourself, there is no need to take in toxic "gender wars" garbage. That quote is meant to provoke hatred in men and likely came from a nutcase, a troll, a "femcel" (incel who is a woman), or someone with a clickbait site. It is ragebait. If you encounter some nutcase claiming that men are not capable of loving women, you do not have to listen to anything they have to say.

You don't really have to intellectually analyze hatemongering and ragebait.

Oh, I just noticed it is by Marilyn Frye. Yeah, she just tries to sound as shocking as possible while painting men as an enemy. Pay her no mind.

You probably went to her writings because someone told you to look up feminist writings to better yourself: But not all feminists are the same. Marilyn Frye is often labeled "radical feminist".

Also, who are these "a lot of women" you are talking about?

UwU-Sugoi-Desu-ne · 2024-06-01T01:58:26+00:00

This idea comes from the misplaced expectation that her man should be like/replacement of her girl-friends. Men and women have very different roles in family and society. So they act very differently and aspire to different goals. A guy cannot be an effective man if he starts acting like women. The thing is men used to be guardians of their women and their family but with the advent of nanny state that role is more or less redundant. So, these women are looking for a girl-friend to marry.

Title	What does this quote mean?
Author	Catdog13579
Upvotes	43
Comments	34
Date	May 31, 2024 3:42 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/ExRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/exredpill/comments/1d4yo1y/what_does_this_quote_mean/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/ExRedPill/what-does-this-quote-mean.1520152 https://theredarchive.com/post/1520152

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