Let's talk prenups

NoThisIs-Patrick · 2020-07-22T19:18:07+00:00

I am 100% about including lifestyle clauses like 'no cheating' into a prenup BUT

In many jurisdictions those aren't actually held up in court, especially if that jurisdiction has no-fault divorce laws (because supposedly a marriage breaking down is the fault of 'both parties').

If you do include one, you'll also have to specify what counts as cheating, otherwise that can be weaseled out of in court, too.

Sage_Planter · 2020-07-22T19:55:16+00:00

Like others have said, writing wildly lopsided clauses can prevent your case from being taken seriously in court. Prenups are pretty shaky to begin with because there's lots of ways to demonstrate they were signed under duress or that you were taken advantage of.

I am a firm proponent of prenup agreements. Protect yourself, protect your assets, but don't get too greedy because it will bite you in the ass. It's like the individuals who make a big fuss about getting more child support for frivolous reasons then find out the hard way their court ordered amount is actually lower than what they were previously receiving.

Being greedy doesn't pay off in the end.

myousername · 2020-07-22T19:21:36+00:00

Problem with prenups is that they can get thrown out in court if the judge rules them too lopsided.

So the clauses are supposed to apply to both parties equally. Meaning that the cheating clause can be used against you, too.

Even if you don't cheat, he could make false accusations. Even if he cannot prove it in court, it will result in a spectacle of a divorce where your name will get dragged through the mud.

FurryBellyButt0n · 2020-07-22T21:38:27+00:00

I would encourage you to make the prenup extensive and cover different facets of life that could be financially disastrous if it were to occur during the transition of having 1 household untangling themselves into 2 separate households independent while figuring out shared items or settlements with property, assets, savings, mementos, etc.

Examples:

If one of you stays home as a full time parent/homemaker to save money on childcare and consciously choose to have a 1 income household for financial contributions/taxes, would the stay at home parent be given an estimated yearly salary of what they provide (in-kind) that justifies having 1 family member choosing to not work because their contributions and management of the household (along with family impact/connection) worth more to the family unit than having both parties work full time and have to coordinate paid childcare coverage? What would that hypothetical stay at home mom & homemaker role be equivalent to as a salary if you were able to generate an in-kind "hourly" rate you would be valued for if you were specifically hired to clean the house, do laundry, provide childcare, cook, clean, meal prep, sew, run errands, schedule household appointments, manage finances, coupon, garden, care for pets, etc.? Both parties should make a breakdown of this "job description" and discuss how many hours would be expected towards just childcare, cleaning, managing household, etc. and then develop an "in-kind" hourly rate or yearly wage this "job" would be worth by being clear of each other's expectations in managing the household AND assuming (like any other employee/worker in life), you would have a normal "workday" schedule (up to 7-8 hours per day plus a lunch break and a few quick breaks per shift) along with normal "workday" perks like: medical leave (husband needs to stay at home so you can rest and take care of the baby), vacation time (both parties are responsible for discussing vacation childcare needs if applicable), PTO (wife wants time away from her duties to do something fun or for herself so husband should arrange or coordinate coverage), etc. You need to have those conversations, write down each other's perspectives and justifications, deliberate further, and collaborate on a fair (to both parties) "happy medium" of what this "job" is worth to the household and treating it as a normal job that has clear benefits that outweigh having the other party find another job .
If you both decided to end your marriage and are realllllly fucking upset with one another while transitioning to divorce, what would you be willing to give your partner in financial support if they were the stay at home parent and if you were the breadwinner? If you were the stay at home parent, what amount would you feel is necessary for you and your child to maintain a comparable lifestyle (or modestly downsized but still comfortable) would you require each month to be able to transition back to the workforce eventually, coordinate next steps in creating their own household, developing a consistent system/schedule for child household drop offs, and uncoupling all of the legal and logistical paperwork associated with a household disbanding after divorce? Write down both answers, share those answers, and come up with a middle ground that is fair, respectful, and impartial to both parties and include this in the prenup. For extra protection, notarize or have legal witnesses present to verify this conversation occurred in case you are ever in a situation that requires legal involvement in the court system. Obviously you hope this will never be used ever in your lifetime, but you cannot pretend this outcome will never exist or be a possibility. This situation happens to many people and we cannot be ignorant to the various ways marriage can really put women in a vulnerable place so it's important to be vigilant of the worst case scenario. How long would be too long? What would happen if there was another catastrophic life event or natural disaster or unforeseen circumstance that would impact the family units adhering to their agreement? What is an acceptable unforeseen circumstance and what is personal responsibility for both parties? List those circumstances and get it in writing, signed, and archived in the agreement. When payment is cutoff, is there a transitional timeline that the other party will gradually reduce payment little by little or by established timelines/dates or would it immediately stop without any financial buffer? What is the day to day cost of comfortably, consistently, responsibly, ethically, and effectively raising 1 singular child as part of this household and it's initial lifestyle (ie: when you both were married with combined finances as part of the shared household) per month factoring living, healthcare costs, savings/college fund, etc.? How much is needed in child support each month to ensure your child has a consistent or equitable balance between both households? How much would you give just for raising the child and their basic needs? How much would you expect your former partner to either contribute towards or ask you to finance for extracurricular, camps, professional development, additional education & training, leadership opportunities, vacations, daytrips, technology, investments, etc.?

Discuss stuff like:
- Contributions that are in-kind or were made as a household jointly while married should be spelled out in the prenup if possible. For example, if one partner chose a really low paying job in their industry because their specific organization's healthcare benefits are amazing and the household perks were valued more than the actual financial contribution they gained from the actual day-to-day job performed (low salary in exchange for great benefits, etc.), this should be explicitly stated and documented (and updated regularly) to indicate these items and verify that they were made together with a witness present so in instance of a potential divorce, it is assumed both are responsible. So in the document, it should state that Partner A had a job that paid a yearly salary of $22k/year working full time in exchange for a family healthcare plan PPO that has a $2000k household deductible and $10 copay, $10k a semester saved in tuition reimbursement as part of their employment, reduced daycare cost for being affiliated with job network/company that saves household $6000 per year in discounts, and $$$ amount contributed to a retirement pension plan at 19% match. These should be listed and documented. Partner B should do the same with their job, but chances are it will reflect that Partner B probably has a better salary/income but they will have shitty health insurance or not many great perks/benefits so it will showcase the other value Partner A's household contributions have on the overall household before they decided to separate and how this will impact Partner A, Partner A + possible baby/children, etc.
If going through a divorce and someone is seriously ill or has a catastrophic medical emergency, what would the process be? Would you want another person designated as an emergency contact immediate upon filing separation and if yes, who should they be?

fireflyfly3 · 2020-07-23T02:34:36+00:00

I was thinking this: if he cheats and admits it, I get 70% of his assets. If he cheats and doesn’t tell me, I get 85%.

No disrespect, but there’s no way that kind of agreement would hold up in court. Definitely get a prenup but make it completely 50/50. Prenups are supposed to protect you, not screw the other party.

Summerisle7 · 2020-07-22T20:15:58+00:00

I agree with the others here, IANAL but my impression is that pre-nups aren't all that effective and can be used against either party. And "morality" clauses like the one you describe, stand a good chance of being unenforceable.

I'm a huge proponent of women protecting themselves during and after marriage, but I think it can be more effectively done by 1. Vetting the man thoroughly before marrying him. 2. Leveling up yourself and having your own assets and income. 3. Not being afraid to end the marriage if it's not working out.

_boring_daven_ · 2020-07-23T00:51:26+00:00

I wouldn’t be greedy. I would just make it so that any salaries, individual savings accounts, investments, IRAs, and retirement accounts are maintained by their owner. Anything co-owned needs to be split in half financially (savings accounts down the middle or by contribution), cars split by money and cannot be physically sawed in half. Whoever keeps the house has to buy the other out of their half share. Etc

toskaache · 2020-07-23T03:45:46+00:00

50% of his income every month while married is deposited into an account only you can access.

Title	Let's talk prenups
Author	here_for_the_free_co
Upvotes	24
Comments	11
Date	July 22, 2020 4:56 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/hvxeu8/lets_talk_prenups/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/lets-talk-prenups.716344 https://theredarchive.com/post/716344

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