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Medium: Men Should Get Our Best Behavior, Too

romulusnr

November 7, 2019
25 upvotes
/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
https://medium.com/@vanessatorre/men-should-get-our-best-behavior-too-9d1319fa087
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Post Information
Title Medium: Men Should Get Our Best Behavior, Too
Author

romulusnr

Upvotes 25
Comments 23
Date November 7, 2019 12:50 AM UTC
(6 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/dspoi5/medium_men_should_get_our_best_behavior_too/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/medium-men-should-get-our-best-behavior-too.1202910
https://theredarchive.com/post/1202910
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Comments

[–]mtcapri 13 points14 points15 points 6 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

So now man/femsplaining means “invalidating your feelings?” I thought it was about explaining something the person you’re talking to actually knows more about, based on the assumption that someone of their gender doesn’t know much about that topic.

Honestly, I think these terms—like many in the modern social justice/feminist lexicon—are balls-to-the-wall stupid, and really just serve to display the prejudices of the speaker, rather than point out any truths in society.

[–]bkrugby78 6 points7 points8 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

In my experience, the definition of these terms changes depending on who is using it. Like you, I thought it was when men who had little knowledge of a subject felt the need to lecture a woman who may be an expert in that field about it. But I've also seen where any comment by a man on any subject has been called mansplaining.

It's condescension, plain an simple (as well as being an asshole), and I don't see why we can't just call it that and leave it non gendered. I know why some feminists use it, it's more of a cue to get attention.

Far as the article goes, I like a lot of what she says, it reads more in an egalitarian light. I imagine most feminist subs on here will rip it apart and say she isn't a "real feminist." I don't know if she is or isn't as I don't feel qualified to determine what a "real feminist" is.

[–]mtcapri 4 points5 points6 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's condescension, plain an simple (as well as being an asshole), and I don't see why we can't just call it that and leave it non gendered. I know why some feminists use it, it's more of a cue to get attention.

I think it comes from a habit feminists have of thinking that any common complaint women (or really just feminist women) have about men deserves special consideration, because it's automatically a feature of patriarchy and thus a societal injustice. Doesn't matter if there's a male analogue; only the female version is a feature of patriarchy, and thus serving to oppress a group of people. The male version is just something shitty men have to deal with, and while that's bad, it's not systemic oppression.

I imagine most feminist subs on here will rip it apart and say she isn't a "real feminist." I don't know if she is or isn't as I don't feel qualified to determine what a "real feminist" is.

There's no such thing as a "real feminist." All feminists are real feminists; some are shitty, sexist hypocrites and others are closer to egalitarians. Any objective appraisal of the movement as a whole should thus conclude with a very mixed opinion. The minute you start saying some feminists aren't "real feminists," you're employing a No True Scotsman argument to excuse the rotten parts of the feminist apple and pretend it's 100% pure, good, and right.

[–]romulusnr[S] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think that's kind of the point here. Weaponizing a term and using it indiscriminately is unhelpful and counterproductive.

[–]mtcapri 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the term was always intended to be used that way, tbh. That's why it's a shitty, sexist term in my book.

[–]cromulent_weasel 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I thought it was about explaining something the person you’re talking to actually knows more about, based on the assumption that someone of their gender doesn’t know much about that topic.

I think it's also telling someone that you understand their perspective/position/opinion better than they do.

[–]mtcapri 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Shit, did I just mansplain mansplaining? LOL.

[–]cromulent_weasel 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It becomes a rabbit hole that doesn't have an end......

[–]romulusnr[S] 10 points11 points12 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

I won’t stand for being marginalized or targeted because of my gender. I will not tolerate a double standard when I see it. Men shouldn’t either.

Being a woman does not give us the right to unfairly treat men because of their gender. It makes us no better than what we fight against.

Disagreeing with someone and defending your own stance is not mansplaining. It’s explaining. Period.

What I want is someone to careful select their words in order to ensure their intent is in line with my perception. This goes for both genders.

[–]magus678 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Disagreeing with someone and defending your own stance is not mansplaining. It’s explaining. Period.

I think mansplaining has been replaced with "gaslighting" these days.

But I appreciate the point she is making, even while I think she is mostly making it by accident.

The admonitions she is giving are essentially just argumentation 101 kind of things. To an extent it shows how far that movement has fallen when she kind of insinuates that these are bombshell-ish observations.

I don't really mean that as an insult, so much as as caution: this entire track of identity politick thought is just an intellectual vortex. If she had rejected the base assumptions in it, she wouldn't have needed any kind of epiphany moment to understand these things: they would have been obvious.

[–]mtcapri 3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I think mansplaining has been replaced with “gaslighting” these days.

Can you explain what you mean by this? It sounds like you’re saying that feminists aren’t using the term “mansplaining” much anymore, and have instead opted for the gender-neutral term “gaslighting,” but this just isn’t true in my experience. Have I misunderstood you here?

[–]magus678 7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I was being a bit tongue in cheek.

The wokie crowd seems to have adopted gaslighting to mean..well, everything. Everything contrary to what they think is an attempt to shake them lose their sanity, apparently.

While I do think I've see it far more than "mansplaining" of late, I don't think its actually replaced it. But since the point of the term was less about descriptiveness, and more about in/out grouping I make the prediction that in the future that will be the case.

If I'm right, you'll see an uptick in the former and a downtick in the latter. We'll see how it works out.

/r/memeeconomy

[–]mtcapri 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Mrm. Well, as much as I'd consider that a minor improvement, I'd still consider such liberal use of the term "gaslighting" to be another example of how sophomoric the social justice crowd is.

[–]magus678 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Oh I hate the misuse. I have multiple comments in my history getting into lots of fights about it if you care enough to look.

My point was just that I think they are more apt to use "en vogue" terms rather than descriptive ones, and gaslighting very much qualifies. As such, I suspect we are going to see it a lot more.

[–]mtcapri 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well, I think you're probably right just on the grounds that "mansplaining" is limited to feminist circles, whereas the broader social justice crowd is more likely to use a term like "gaslighting," because it's more broadly applicable. Not sure it's really a fair comparison, tbh.

[–]magus678 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well, its not a fair comparison. At least in the descriptive sense.

I'm just saying the descriptive component is not as important as the "signal-y" one.

[–]LeJacquelope 0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Some heroes don't necessarily wear capes.

[–]heimdahl81 9 points10 points11 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's nice to hear a feminist acknowledge that femsplaining is real. I had a feminist friend argue with me that a mineral mentioned on a tv show wasnt real, while I insisted it was real. I have a geology degree and she does not. All I could think is that if the roles were reversed, she would be tearing my head off about not respecting her expertise because she was a woman.

[–]YooGeOh 8 points9 points10 points 6 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A refreshingly introspective article. Still irked by parts of it though, especially the "we need to teach men..." notion that seems to be so prevalent in feminist narratives. The tactic now seems to be to treat men as naughty children who just have less knowledge, experience, and education than women, and womens place seems to be the tired but ever loving mothers to these naughty little manchildren. The whole tone is incessantly condescending.

[–]alcockell 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Almost in a "don't worry your handsome/pretty little head about..." manner?

[–]YooGeOh 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yup.

"Let the big people take charge of things."

Nietzsche wrote about imbalances of the maternal and paternal in society. I cant remember it exactly but this attitude is a good example of it

[–]Blauwpetje 2 points3 points4 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

As far as I can see (also in the other things on her blog) still a feminist with whom I disagree about almost everything. But I respect her only the more for acknowledging what she acknowledges in this article. And I hope it will really reach her fellow feminists.

[–]romulusnr[S] 1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah but the more the better. Progress.

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