https://www.theatlantic.com/family/archive/2020/02/modern-dating-odds-economy-apps-tinder-math/606982/
I’m new to this sub so apologies if this has been already discussed. I think this topic is one that is very well suited for this group.
Marx talks about the commodity fetish and how capitalism inevitably commoditizes everything. This has been happening for the past five years with online dating and it’s effects on relationships. Online dating has become the most common way that couples meet, overtaking every other method, even traditional ones like mutual friends and contacts. The problem is that unlike the latter, dating sites and apps are specifically designed to maximize profit. This means that the more of its users get into long-terms relationships, the less money they make. Therefore, the business model inherently is to overwhelm women with choices to make them very picky (meaning they usually shoot for men out of their league) and men desperate, making both spend more time on the apps and spend money on their additional services.
Now, this may be a conscious policy of companies like Match Group or Bumble, etc. It honestly wouldn’t surprise me if it were. But even if it’s not, they’re not the ones dictating this. In reality, you have highly advanced artificial intelligence (AI) and supercomputers making these decisions. Must focus has been put on how AI is used on social media sites, and a term has been made called “surveillance capitalism” which refers to the way these social media companies track your every activity in order to maximize your use of their products. Not much has been done to address this same process on dating apps.
The disparity for the genders on dating apps is one I’m sure everyone here knows about. Indeed, in the article linked at the top, an internal study by Hinge compared men’s and women’s status on the app to the Gini coefficient (a measure used to determine income inequality) of various nations. They found that women are in conditions comparable to first world Western European nations, while men are facing conditions similar to South Africa. (Ironic how the app that claims to be about finding relationships is anything but.)
This highlights how AI has intensified the traditional gender dynamics in dating to maximize profit. Traditionally, men chase and women choose. In pre-Internet dating, women normally had several suitors to choose from, while men were chasing after one or two. A woman would play the market so to speak, and go for the man she thought was the best pick for her. This may take some time, but it wasn’t overwhelming to her and she stayed in the relationship for some time before either marrying or breaking up. This dynamic is now on steroids. Women are overwhelmed with choices, having at least dozens of potential suitors each, while most men are hardly able to find anybody. The top-tier men are now playing the market, and sleeping around as much as they can before settling down, disappointing many women along the way. This situation means that everybody is staying on the apps because most everybody is single. Add to that the various dopamine-inducing features of each app, and they are making boat-loads of money.
While it’s easy to blame women or feminism for this dynamic (as is often done in the manosphere), in reality, it’s capitalism that is to be blamed, particularly surveillance capitalism. Biologically, the sexual dynamic has always worked under the “men chase women choose” model. However, capitalism has exploited this and intensified it by providing an “illusion of choice,” whereby a customer is presented with so many options and paradoxically they are unable to make a choice. Nevertheless, they keep looking and shopping and the capitalist keeps making money. Now this same model has come to dating and it is wrecking sexual dynamics. The number of people having sex and in relationships is declining, with men being hit much harder. In 2018, nearly a third of men were celibate, compared to about 10% of women. I would not be surprised if the numbers were much higher now. Indeed, these companies have capitalized on this pandemic and now I’m sure that the vast majority of relationships are being formed online. However, with that being said, the number of people forming relationships has declined I am sure. I wouldn’t be surprised if nearly 50% of men were celibate and probably a third of women, if not more.
This has very obvious ramifications for society. Men who are unable to form relationships are unable to form families, and they have no investment in society. Men in this state are more likely to be radicalized, and more likely to be violent. Given that social media is already promoting extremism due to its ability to get engagement, the possibility of this is much higher. Women are also no better off. They may be more likely to have relations, but they are also more likely to be fleeting and short term. This will cause mental health problems for them, as their inability to find a reliable partner and form a family is also detrimental to their psyche. Furthermore, both genders will become increasingly resentful towards the other and gender relations will continuously decline.
Advanced technology may not be the problem. The problem is that these technologies are programmed to maximize profit. We know how capitalism has destroyed societies historically, particularly the third world. Labor and class relations soured to the point of violence and revolution. These processes have been regulated in most of the West, however, and class relations have improved relative to what they were a century ago (although they are far from perfect, particularly in America). Now, capitalism is doing the same to gender relations. I fear that we are headed towards either violence or a Japan-like stagnation that will last decades. An increasing trend of far-right violence may make the latter, unfortunately, more likely. We have seen that the young men who are commuting acts of mass violence are almost always loners with no relations with women. In fact, there is the meme of “incel extremism” that even the US military is concerned about. Unless significant regulations on the data policies of tech firms are put into place, I fear this trend will only get worse.
Happy to hear your thoughts.
[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children) | Copy Link
[–]Blauwpetjevalued LWMA contributor 11 points12 points13 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]uq551 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
If we're talking about importing market concepts into the domain of intimate relationships, how can we not mention the feminist contributions to that school of thought ... ctrl-F for "emotional labor", "chore gap", nope.
Of course, when men start to tally up, or put reasonable bounds on, their emotional and financial investment in intimate relationships, that's ungentlemanly, exploitative, and cynical.
To be more precise, what's being said is that these women are mistaking their sexual market value (the kind of men who might be prepared to sleep with her on a given night) for their marriage/relationship market value - ("Now convincing these fly-by-nighter men to date, romance, introduce to their friends, spend money on, and marry the women they screw… that’s the real trick.")
It's all fun and games for women to treat dating like a strip-mining operation. Once men start to share notes on the behavior and discuss the financial and emotional cost of dating such women, then they're cast as the cynical and exploitative party.
[+]TheocracyNow1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I’ve heard about feminist critiques of the “sexual revolution” but I’ve never read too deeply into it. I imagine they say a lot of the same stuff.
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[–]TheocracyNow1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Feminism, while adopting the language of the left, acts as a right wing ideology. It’s sole focus is on identity and belonging in it and benefiting from it requires a uterus, hence something you can only be born into. Feminism is mutually exclusive with male interests, in the same way that say German nationalism is mutually exclusive with Polish or French nationalism. Add to that that the consequence of feminism is a covert form of eugenics (ie. 80/20 rule, abortion, birth control) and you can start comparing it to the worst fascist regimes (avoiding names to avoiding triggering Godwin’s Law).
[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate 0 points1 point2 points (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]TheocracyNow1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
I said they are a form of eugenics.
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[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate[M] 1 point2 points3 points (0 children) | Copy Link
[+]MelissaMiranti1 points [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link
Prove it.
[+]DevilComeKnockin1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link
Lol. Well, look up the mugshots of the Antifa squad that got arrested in Portland back in late October. It was mostly post-wall women and a number of EXTREMELY unkempt men. And these guys were the sort that have to beg, trust me. We're talking trolls here. Real nasty, the archetypical neckbeard look. And it's a matter of fact that where women go, virtue-signaling simps will follow.
So yeah... bitter, nihilistic Involuntarily-Celibate Intersectionalists. It's not a new phenomenon.
[+]MelissaMiranti1 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
Judging books by their covers is not proof.
[+]DevilComeKnockin1 points [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link
Well okay. How about you prove that all those guys ARE getting laid on the regular. Sound fair?
[+]MelissaMiranti1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
No, you're the one making an assertion, that's how the burden of proof works.
[+]DevilComeKnockin1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Listen lady. I have been watching liberal NiceGuys™ chasing riotgrrls and feminists for three decades. And as a verified male, I can tell you that it almost Never works. Pity on the fools if it does. If you want to live in some fantasy land where every guy is nailing feminists on the regular, go ahead.
[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate -1 points0 points1 point (12 children) | Copy Link
[+]TheocracyNow1 points [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link
Capitalism is the means by which value is produced and commoditized. In this scenario, the product and commodity is the user.
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[–]a-man-from-earthleft-wing male advocate -1 points0 points1 point (3 children) | Copy Link
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[+]TheocracyNow1 points [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Okay, then just skip literally the only sentence where I mention him.
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