Dayum😂 | MGTOW

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[–]TheLastMgtow-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

No hierarchy is natural. Hierarchies are created for survival.

If you have everything you need to thrive, you dont have to let yourself be below someone else. You can just leave. As it was common place in all societies during the paleolithic.

And if you have everything you need to thrive, you also dont need someone else below you, to serve you, and potentially risking your own safety. Because you know, men dont like being slaves, and they will just be waiting for the opportunity to chop your head off asap, if you are above them.

Hierarchies are coping mechanisms for humans in a scarce world, that was once abundant.

As many times happened before, humans will always drift and if they have a place to go they will not allow themselves to be under any hierarchy or to respond to anyone else, other than themselves.

If you believe you need a hierarchy to thrive, then you really need it. Because its a question of believing you are that weak. Naturally you were made to be free. And not give your freedom for security.

[–]Kinetic_Wolf7 points8 points9 points 6 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheLastMgtow0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

Nobody said it does not benefit "society". It does benefit society. But it does not benefit men individually. At least men the strive to be free.

Where is the hierarchy that i must obey to if i go live in the woods?

If you think hierarchies are so good for you. Why do you think most people need so much entertainment and medication? Bread and circus.

Do you think hunter gatherers would have the same hierarchies we have? Or are they only symbolic hierarchies, in the sense that, there isnt even a hierarchy but merely beginners who the experts in hunting will depend on anyways. And they can leave anytime if they want.

Hierarchies only benefit groups, its collectivist utility. Only women need herds to survive. Men do not.

The fact modern hierarchies even get away with so much bullshit they push on men, is a fucking shame. Men would leave in droves, if they had anywhere to go.

To finish. Where is the hierarchy in a boy raised in the wild. Adopted by wolves or lions. Unless you consider being fed by a predator, to be under a hierarchy.

Conclusion. Hierarchies are collectivistic. Serve power. Power and collectivism serves women. Women are passive towards tyranny or even feel attracted to it. All power and all societies corrupt at some point. Hierarchies in general are bad for the individual who strives to be free, obviously. Unless of course you are one of the 2% on top, but even you will get sick and corrupt at some point.

[–]Farrenkorr1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheLastMgtow1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I knew you would take the bait. They are nothing like the hierarchies of modern society. Modern society hierarchies dont give a shit about your value, but only what they can take from you. If you refer to lions and wolves hierarchies they are based on hunting, while ours are based on stupid shit.

The wolves will not ostracize each other, they are a small group of individuals that need each other, and they fight and die to protect each other. It sounds more like a gang, than a Jordan Peterson social hierarchy where you must be submissive to whatever the rules of that system is, and take it like a champ. Corruption and tyranny can take that to whatever levels, it has no limits.

There are obvious limits in hierarchies of hunters and animals. To the point they are not real hierarchies. There are none in social hierarchies of modern society. Basically might makes right.

What i mean with this is that, the power of the group is put in check by the capacity of the individuals to walk away. A wolf alone is selfsufficient, thats why they can be lone wolves. But you as a man, you pay taxes to people you dont know, you eat the food they give you, you believe in their politics and vote. You are nothing but a slave.

A wolf might be this and that, but he does not perform in the circus. For more insight read my last long comment.

[–]Farrenkorr1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

you know, you seem to be making a massive amount of assumptions about everything in these comments... none of them are anywhere near accurate.

If you refer to lions and wolves hierarchies they are based on hunting, while ours are based on stupid shit.

no, thats wrong I'm afraid. they are based on dominance, submission, resource acquisition, social status and reproduction.

The wolves will not ostracize each other, they are a small group of individuals that need each other, and they fight and die to protect each other.

uuummmm... never seen video footage of the pack ostracizing a beta or omega male by singling it out, cornering it and attacking it on mass until it leaves the pack then? sorry, you're just wrong on this one.

than a Jordan Peterson social hierarchy where you must be submissive to whatever the rules of that system is, and take it like a champ.

in everything I've seen and read from JBP, I have never once heard him advising people to become submissive. quite the opposite in fact. look, you seem to be still under this delusion that some white male in the west wrote down all the present hierarchies that exist on earth at some point in 2004 and somehow got every human on earth to become part of them without realising it. it's just wrong. hierarchies aren't there because person one wants to control person two. I'm not saying that doesnt happen but it's not what a hierarchy is and it's not special to homosapiens.

But you as a man, you pay taxes to people you dont know, you eat the food they give you, you believe in their politics and vote. You are nothing but a slave.

who's 'they' dude? you do realise that society is a collection of individuals, right? look at the influx of African and Asian cultures into the west. they are completely changing the structure and fabric of the society they are moving into due to the differing ideas of the individual. if the social hierarchies you mention were as strict, concrete and ubiquitous as you say, that wouldn't happen. the mere existence of the hierarchy would force them to comply, not the case. hierarchies show status, status attracts a mate, mating secures progeny and so hierarchy is passed down to the next generation. lone wolves rarely mate, and therefore their philosophies and ideas do not get passed down to the next generation.

as to the other points in that quote, one, yes , I am a man and yes I pay taxes so that i don't have to defend myself from a wild animal or murderous human, so I'm not knee deep in sewage and rotten food waste and so that I can survive a small cut to the finger and not die of tetanus or infection. taxes aren't a 'pay me or I'll beat you up' kind of school yard bully. two, nobody gives me food. I have a flock of 34 chickens, a flock of 56 quail, 11 beehives and a mealworm farm to supplement and feed said birds. I hunt for rabbit, deer and pheasant as well as fishing pots for crab, lobster and cod, baited with Mackerel and Whiting that I line catch. I gather, grow and preserve most of my own supply of fruit and veg and the rest I buy direct from local farms. whos telling you what to eat man? that's pretty harsh by any standards. and three, I have my own personal political beliefs that tend to make me new enemies a lot of the time... I don't vote unless it's for something I personally feel strongly about and the things that I personally feel strongly about are generally not what the mainstream wants to talk about. shit, I didn't even get on the electoral register until I was 31 years old. not because the hierarchy forced me into it but because something was happening that I felt strongly about. but hey, that's just what a slave would say right?

it seems to me that the issue you have isn't with hierarchy, it's with the existence of currency and how that translates to social status and dominance. currency is not status, or dominance. but the personality traits which grant you the ability to acquire these things are what need to be built and nurtured.

There are none in social hierarchies of modern society. Basically might makes right.

if that was the case, we would be celebrating rape and murder and not punishing people for them. in a lawless society bereft of any sort of structure, that statement might hold water but that's not what we live in and thank fuck for that.

dude, we've come so far in our societal evolution that it really is incredible. it should be held in awe, not attacked and torn down.

[–]TheLastMgtow1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

no, thats wrong I'm afraid. they are based on dominance, submission, resource acquisition, social status and reproduction.

This is a human projection. Wolves, lions are pack animals. That doesnt mean they need the pack or that they wont survive and thrive without the pack. Plenty of wolves go lone wolf and they are fine.

Hierarchies in wolves just as in humans only exist so long as individuals are willing to put up with it. Obviously. Even a retarded child can understand this.

But thats if the wolves were actually hierarchichal like we are in civilization, aka gynocracy clown world.

In civilization, men fight for scraps and enslave each other, backstab each other for scraps.

The human was not like that before, obviously. Its a product of scarcity mentality, and slavery. The pack needs all the individuals. The alpha wolf theory was already debunked.

Read again my last comments, if you didnt understand them. Or you are stubborn with your pseudoscience.

never seen video footage of the pack ostracizing a beta or omega male by singling it out, cornering it and attacking it on mass until it leaves the pack then? sorry, you're just wrong on this one.

No. Because there is not any. Show me. And before you speak you could have at least made some research. See how you look like a dumbass now? Post your link. Ill be waiting. They dont reject beta wolves, because they dont even have a concept for beta wolves. They just fight each other sometimes, but there is no cuck hierarchy like you are projecting.

in everything I've seen and read from JBP, I have never once heard him advising people to become submissive.

Then read more. JBP wants men to get the juice that is not worth the squeeze. Submit to the standards of modern women. Be a provider and take responsability without authority. Of course you would not understand this without me explaining it to you literally as if you are a retarded child.

If you are not submissive, you will never marry. And you will avoid paying taxes. And you will try to get away, or get your own business. Most alpha males are in prison now. Because this system wants submissive men. The others will all go insane and kill each other.

the mere existence of the hierarchy would force them to comply, not the case. hierarchies show status, status attracts a mate, mating secures progeny and so hierarchy is passed down to the next generation. lone wolves rarely mate, and therefore their philosophies and ideas do not get passed down to the next generation.

Lmao. Nonsense. If that was the case then why do we still have lone wolves, and men that are mgtow and thrive. Perhaps you married submissive cucks father children that are ours. Nature knows best. And females being a product of nature, ALWAYS, always choose free alpha men, lone wolves. Not retarded social butterflies that are too dependent on social validation and hierarchies. Your idol JP looks like a weak cuck, and if you go read his history he even let an exboyfriend of his wife cohabitate with her after marriage. AHAHAHAHAHAHA. And he went to work while they stayed at home alone. How more of a cuck can you be really? See, thats your hero. And i do like a lot of things that Peterson say. And i follow the same diet. But he got it all wrong and he doesnt understand the context we are living, and we need to stop marrying these women and let them suffer, while we thrive and conquer. Let them marry only the cucks, and we impregnate them while hubby is at work.

We will have a generation of lone wolves in no time. And mgtow will be the norm fast. Because if you read Michelle Langley, you will understand women cant even have sex with these married men. ahahah. So mgtows dont have to do much to bang the average wife, because these wives are actually after us.

I am a man and yes I pay taxes so that i don't have to defend myself from a wild animal or murderous human

Thats fear. You are willing to give up your freedom for comfort and security. I dont mind being killed by a wild animal, and fighting with my hands a murderous human and die. IF IT means that until that day, im a free man. Remember that. There is a difference between us, and its right here. Im not afraid of death. And the reason this system nowadays exists, is because of men like you, that are afraid and too submissive.

so I'm not knee deep in sewage and rotten food waste and so that I can survive a small cut to the finger and not die of tetanus or infection.

What a princess you must be. Yes because your diet and lifestyle is so shitty and your imune system is so weak you cant even survive a cut. Look at cultures like the masaai, they eat meat mostly and they thrive. No need of any of your gadgets and comforts.

Ok. What you said after this last phrase actually is good, and i give you that. And that i respect.

it seems to me that the issue you have isn't with hierarchy, it's with the existence of currency and how that translates to social status and dominance.

Thats basically what defines our hierarchies. Hierarchies in humans that hunt are based on meritocracy. In the modern world humans are so sick, they want to kill each other, dominate each other, and in doing so, they also set themselves for failure. Its a sick system that loves male disposability, and men destroying each other, and from that they skim profits and an economy based on suffering and blood. In conclusion someone has to die and suffer and lose their shit so that the wheels keep turning, and in the end even the winners are sick mentally, and after they get all their material resources they far too gone already, and realize they are not happy anyways, and some suicide.

if that was the case, we would be celebrating rape and murder and not punishing people for them.

Even if you dont celebrate rape and murder. Women love violent men and psychopaths, at least in your degenerate society they do. You can punish them all you want. So long as women are attracted to gangsters and criminals, the prisons will be full, and men will be killing each other.

in a lawless society bereft of any sort of structure, that statement might hold water but that's not what we live in and thank fuck for that.

A lawless society either ends up in order again, or the population reduces so much to the point where a man no longer needs to answer to other to thrive. Your world, and economy has its foundations on scarcity. Your diamonds are expensive because they are made to be rare. If we all could get food and resources easily, we wouldn't waste our time in hierarchies, and slave away our time and energy for money and status. If money could not buy pussy, then money would lose a bit of its value. This is obvious, and everyone that is not retarded understands this.

While society has a lot of benefits. Its mostly solutions to problems we ourselves created. Coping mechanisms such as agriculture, money, politics, religion, military, entertainment.

Society and the world is too far gone. And i cant even begin to explain you specifically why, because you will reject the idea that you could be free because you are too addicted to comfort, and you are too afraid, so afraid that you will fight me, a man that is willing to die to be free.

In other words society should be an option, you should not be forced to live in society and go through social hierarchies and pecking orders to survive, that is the epitome of being a slave. Humans should have the option to opt out.

Any smart person that looks at what the world is now, and what the world use to be. Understands where we are going. I want you to look at the world of Blade Runner 2049, because thats where we are going. And in that world you have to eat synthetic food and be a slave, which is almost what is happening at the moment.

The world was once an abundant place full of wild animals. Right now you have to eat cows and pigs that are fed corn and soy. And you wonder why you cant get a cut without an infection and you need medicine.

We evolved for much of our evolutionary history in abundance, not scarcity. We were very few. And hierarchies always existed, but our numbers were so low, that it made the power of hierarchies meaningless in comparison to the power of the individual that could walk out anytime.

[–]Kinetic_Wolf1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Nobody said it does not benefit "society". It does benefit society. But it does not benefit men individually. At least men the strive to be free.

Depends what you want in life. If you want to live with the conveniences of technology and society, it tremendously benefits men too.

Where is the hierarchy that i must obey to if i go live in the woods?

None. What is stopping you from doing this is the government, the violation of the non-aggression principle. It's not hierarchy.

If you think hierarchies are so good for you. Why do you think most people need so much entertainment and medication? Bread and circus.

This is due to a lack of life-direction and self-actualization. I can go out in the world and bike all day, enjoy good food, and that's heavenly for me.

Do you think hunter gatherers would have the same hierarchies we have?

Of course. The best hunters and the best gatherers were deferred to their expertise and skill. This benefited the whole tribe.

Or are they only symbolic hierarchies, in the sense that, there isnt even a hierarchy but merely beginners who the experts in hunting will depend on anyways. And they can leave anytime if they want.

Beginners are still valuable, especially in their potential, but not nearly as valued as the better hunters.

Hierarchies only benefit groups, its collectivist utility. Only women need herds to survive. Men do not.

For pure survival, sure. A man can learn the necessary skills to go live out in the woods alone and depend purely on himself. If that's how you want to live, your enemy is government, not hierarchy. If you want more from life, then hierarchy is your best friend.

The fact modern hierarchies even get away with so much bullshit they push on men, is a fucking shame. Men would leave in droves, if they had anywhere to go.

They do, actually. If you're an 18 year old man, you can start to learn a trade or start a business and begin earning decent coin relatively fast. $35k post-tax in your 20s, easily. Live a minimalist lifestyle for 15 years at that and you can effortlessly have well north of 200k saved before your 35th birthday. That's enough to retire on in a minimalist lifestyle, with all the benefits society offers.

If you live to please others, that's where the trap is.

[–]TheLastMgtow1 point 6 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Of course. The best hunters and the best gatherers were deferred to their expertise and skill. This benefited the whole tribe.

Of course man. But its not really a hierarchy, when you can reject it, and thrive without it. A hierarchy is basically a system where your value and function is dictated by a group. While in the hunter gatherer "tribe", that is impossible to avoid, it is also impossible to dictate any conditions on another a hunter, because he is by himself an entity and he can leave the tribe and thrive anyways. Studies have been made that food was very abundant in the paleo. It is very unlikely, that they had social hierarchies and pecking orders as we have now.

Basically those only apply when men are trapped and cant go anywhere. If men have power, by power i mean, the means to thrive without the group, then the group is not in a position to categorize individuals according to a hierarchy, because then the group risks losing individuals. Because groups are composed by individuals. But these laws, that are essentially laws of nature, are absent in modern society. And this is why i reject hierarchies, because in modern society they will exist to categorize men and extract value from men.

Depends what you want in life. If you want to live with the conveniences of technology and society, it tremendously benefits men too.

"Show me what you value more than your freedom and I'll show you the tool of your enslavement"

The tech and the candy of modern society should be meaningless to those who prioritize freedom. Freedom has no price. Comfort and security means nothing without freedom. It means nothing to me.

If the price of tech and conveniences is the loss of your freedom. I say let me go leave alone in the woods, and i hope your society burns and dies, and never makes a come back. More wild animals and resources to me.

None. What is stopping you from doing this is the government, the violation of the non-aggression principle. It's not hierarchy.

Yes and no. The government will act its coping mechanisms to keep the population controlled. Basically the pecking orders and social hierarchies that everyone seems to be submissive towards, take place in every group where the individuals are codependent and for some reason cant leave, or have no standards and no will of their own. If one leaves, it means 2 will leave, if 2 will leave, then 5 leave, and the hierarchy collapses.

Power corrupts. Tyranny is biology. The only problem is that in this world it prevails and lasts, but in nature it is a selfcorrecting problem.

As for the example of the hunter gatherers this is a way more organic process. Because the moment social hierarchies and pecking orders take the tone of branding men, its collapse is almost instantaneous, so much that it never really takes place. Because the group is kept in check by the power individuals have to leave the group. And you can see that this that im talking about is absent in modern society. Tyranny and corruption will take place, and men won't leave because, most endorse a sheeple state. The hierarchies in modern society are destructive to individuals, that are powerless, and society knows this. You have no place to go. No different than a married man with a nagging wife, she knows you are trapped, so you are below the hierarchy that she now controls, and unless you are willing to lose half of your stuff, your laws are made by someone else.

Beginners are still valuable, especially in their potential, but not nearly as valued as the better hunters.

Not at all. Beginners are as valuable as expert hunters because they will be the ones next. All hunters risk their lives to feed each other. You won't have a pecking order or a social hierarchy in that situation. Basically every individual is too valuable to ever get categorized as lesser than or above than, unless of course he does something that is deserved.

A man can learn the necessary skills to go live out in the woods alone and depend purely on himself.

He can still. But its becoming harder and harder. Humans use to thrive by eating wild nutritious meats, in lands that were abundant in herds. Its a joke that we often assume paleo times were scarce in food. It was basically unlimited, and the best quality. You could choose the animal you wanted to eat and hunt. Thats it. How does this relate to hierarchies? A lot, and its also related to mgtow.

Because your power in society, hierarchies, and relationships, is your power and capability of walking away.

If that's how you want to live, your enemy is government, not hierarchy.

Its the same. If i escape the government, but then i submit myself to collectivism, and embrace a hierarchy then that group becomes the government, which ultimately can corrupt and suddenly categorize me as this or that, or that i should pay taxes, or that i should marry to have value, and so on.

Thats why im against hierarchies, and every mgtow subconsciously is. Thats why they reject gynocentrism. Gynocentrism loves hierarchies, loves to categorize men. Mgtow is about rejecting that categorization, that branding, and escaping it.

If you want more from life, then hierarchy is your best friend.

More of life? More like what? More money? More material resources? Man i dont judge anyone. But im happy with very little. Im happy with healthy food, and physical exercise. If i want more from life, to the point im willing to allow myself to be branded and or accept pecking orders, where i must be a slave or enslave others, i think thats immoral, and i would prefer, if possible, to not go that way. But it seems we modern men dont have much of an option to survive, and we must kill each other to get more, because "more and more is what is important in life", it seems...

" The fact modern hierarchies even get away with so much bullshit they push on men, is a fucking shame. Men would leave in droves, if they had anywhere to go."

They do, actually. If you're an 18 year old man, you can start to learn a trade or start a business and begin earning decent coin relatively fast

Thats what im doing man. But it still sounds like contributing and being free within the jail they set for you. You will still pay taxes. You will still serve and help build the same plantation that enslaves men and sets these pecking orders that ultimately work fueled by male disposability.

But this is all philosophy. You know i am right. But dont listen to me. Dont feel bad about yourself. Just do what you have to do.

That's enough to retire on in a minimalist lifestyle, with all the benefits society offers.

Thanks man. Thanks for your positivity.

If you live to please others, that's where the trap is.

Yes. Perhaps im just overthinking. Even though my theories are accurate they are pointless to think about, because there is nothing really we can do.

[–]Farrenkorr1 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheLastMgtow0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thats not hierarchies. Thats basically they fighting for resources and territory. A hierarchy is human system, where someone is above you and others are below us. A hierarchy can only exist when individuals have no choice other than accepting it.

What do you prefer to work in a mine so you can get a salary so you can buy food to survive, or live somewhere where you dont have to deal with any of that, and you just hunt your food. Hierarchies are a product of scarcity, either natural scarcity, or scarcity by design.

Use your brain. Hierarchies exist because you are far removed from nature, and you are paying taxes, and eating food that is adultered set for you by someone else. Where you must play the game and accept whatever the laws in society are, to survive, or that you are so addicted to its comforts, you are willing to allow yourself to be branded. Read my last two comments to understand more.

[+][deleted] 6 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

What source on that Sicily thing u using?

[–]JihadNinjaCowboy-1 points0 points1 point 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WADegenerate12 points13 points14 points 6 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

This is true. Several years ago I was single and was into boxing and fitness and would have been called a Chad. Had women know that I was fucking several of them and they all fought for me instead of telling me to fuck off. Line literally would show up at my house and physically fight over me. I’m not even bragging.

It was then that I changed; because I saw how weak and basic women are. I did end up getting G married just to have a solid family unit for my daughter (I know that I’ll get down voted for that) but I do not have false expectations. For instance, we swing. I’m ok with it because I know how women are and she’s probably cheat if we didn’t but now I have a say in who and when and make sure that there are STD tests.

It’s like a game for me because most guys who swing do it because the wives are instantly ok with the idea 99% of the time but the guys are conned into it. So typically it’s some beta guy woth mediocre skills in the bedroom that is essentially allowing themselves to be cocked because they are unsure of the whole thing but are afraid to say no. So they end up barely being able to get it up while I don’t give a shit. My wife ends up kinda disappointed while I fuck line line crazy and have the guys wife begging for more.

My wife now is all like “I’m not sure this is for us” and I’m like “well we can’t go back now. It’s what we agreed on”. She is actually a solid parent and a good friend but I like this because it actually ended up giving me control of the relationship. I make three times what she does and had more going in so she has also signed a pre-nup pre-marriage.

I control My shit and get the best of both worlds. It kinda makes me sad though sometimes seeing how many simps are in the lifestyle because they know that they can’t please or stand up to their partner. Guys basically allowing their wives to get plowed because they are afraid of losing them while I do because I know she can’t do better and it reminds her of that.

[–]zerlingrush3 points4 points5 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]GhostMan02141 point2 points3 points 6 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I had similar notions when I was younger. I'm a wrestler, myself. I remember feeling pretty bummed that the attention seemed so shallow. I felt like they didn't see ME. After a wrestling accident involving my neck, I let myself get fat. I started looking a little shittier. Then they left me alone. I've since got back in shape because I can't live that fat life. I guess all I need to get back in the game is change my clothes to something a little prettier and a bit tighter. Feels good just living the monk life, though. I proposed swinging to my ex and she was super upset about it. She knew other girls would pounce at the opportunity. Hell, I'd be out on a date with her and other girls would blatantly show their interests in front of her. I'm glad I didn't get married, but good on you for doing everything you can to remind her she's not the center of the universe.

[–]WADegenerate0 points1 point2 points 6 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The tho g that I noticed is that when I was in shape and looking awesome and confident, women would go after regardless of if they were in a relationship ship or married or not. I. Fact, it was no harder to hook up with a married woman than it was a single one other than scheduling talking or hooking up on the sly. Almost zero resistance though. I got to a point where it wasn’t an ego boost but depressing. Hearing a woman talk about how hard her husband works then see her laughing 30 minutes later about how she was going to have to walk into her home with cum i. Her hair and kiss her husband with cum in her mouth was a real ducking eye opener.

That’s why I have no false expectations in marriage and can’t be phased. This world is a lonely one no matter what. Pretending it’s not can help some get through but it’s just pretending.

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Title	Dayum😂
Author	iamrivensky
Upvotes	2001
Comments	95
Date	August 15, 2019 9:15 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/cqw5i1/dayum/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW/dayum.409635 https://theredarchive.com/post/409635

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