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MaunaLoona
[–]MaunaLoona[S] 44 points45 points46 points 9 years ago (42 children) | Copy Link
There's one thing that really bothers me about this graph. If women are roughly as smart as men, then why are the low IQ majors dominated by women? Either high IQ women are less likely to attend college, which I find hard to believe, or there is a substantial IQ gap between men and women.
[–]a17c81a358 points59 points60 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There is also an attitude problem. Men work hard, few women do.
From a purely psychological standpoint it is hard to motivate yourself when you are being showered with gifts, sex offers and money just for existing - which is the life of most young women.
[–]uglyrabbits14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Hahahaha. I'll remember this the next time I work an 80 hour week to keep a roof over my family's head. I'll come home and demand all the gifts, sex offers and money I should have gotten if I wasn't working. Actually this is great justification for a raise. I'll bring it up with my female manager.
[–]PokemonMasterX20 points21 points22 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
http://media.breitbart.com/media/2015/10/qbxNInO.gif
The vast majority of humans with high IQ, are men, and of course there is a difference between the behavior of the sexes and genders, based on both genetic and environmental parameters.
[–]Coluphid9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Not all human males.
And this graph also illustrates the relative capacities and capabilities of varying IQ ranges.
To anyone ready to downvote this I challenge you to find your courage and to actually refute these instead.
http://i.imgur.com/qXwdnNg.gif
http://i.imgur.com/sO4ywUp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SF8h2D3.png
http://i.imgur.com/JKoE3D9.gif
[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 9 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link
The AVERAGE for men and women is the same, but the standard deviation for men is larger, so the extremes at both ends are more heavily populated by men. Degrees in physics, engineering, etc. can't be earned by people with average IQ's, just the people near the top, which are mostly men.
[–]a17c81a37 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
That is a myth based on flawed studies examining girls in puberty and boys BEFORE puberty. Adult males have the same variance and just plain higher IQs on average.
[–]hemsae5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Source? I hadn't heard this before, so I'd like to read up on it.
[–]a17c81a30 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YruxhWO8QSY
[–]youtubefactsbot2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Men are Smarter than Women, Deal with it! [10:36] Since academia is too riddled with Feminists to do actual science, it looks like a monkey is going to have to show them how it's done. Turd Flinging Monkey in Education 78,979 views since Apr 2015
Men are Smarter than Women, Deal with it! [10:36]
Since academia is too riddled with Feminists to do actual science, it looks like a monkey is going to have to show them how it's done.
Turd Flinging Monkey in Education
78,979 views since Apr 2015
bot info
[–]fmanly3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think the key is that the chart only talks about degrees and not life situations, and it is cut off above an IQ of 100.
If you continued the chart downwards into "occupations" like being institutionalized or imprisoned I suspect you'd again see the male ratio go back up.
[–]SexistFlyingPig4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
This is a common myth perpetrated by only assessing IQ between ages 11 and 14, when women have their largest developmental advantage. Men have larger brains. Larger brains = smarter people. Men are smarter than women (on average)
[+][deleted] 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[deleted]
[–]SexistFlyingPig4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They aren't people. Different evolutionary path.
[–]Trek131 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I think a determining factor in brain size equating to intelligence is the ratio of brain to body size. I've read that Sperm whales have the largest brains of any animal but they are not smarter than humans. It could even be argued that some birds, like parrots, are smarter than whales, certainly smarter than dogs so brain size all by itself is not the determining factor in intelligence.
So while women do have smaller brains they also have smaller bodies. But I've also read that the sexes are not exactly equal when it comes to the median IQ = 100. Males are actually slightly higher, around 103 or 104 median. If its true that IQ tests have been adjusted to try and normalize men and women results (raise women's scores) then this difference is probably even greater.
[–]droppincliffs8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link
Smart people don't go to college.
Edit. Smart people don't pay to go to college.
[–]Freeze958 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
How do you become a physicist or a mathematician if you don't go to college?
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Bad examples you chose. If you're a math genius you don't need to go to college to be a mathematician.
There are plenty of other professions where a degree is required though. Doesn't matter how smart you are, if you want to be a brain surgeon in a developed country you'll need to go to college.
[–]Freeze9511 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
A math or physics genius without a PhD will very rarely actually contribute to the field. The vast majority become crackpots because it takes years of training to get up to speed in these fields and resources that an amateur isn't going to have.
[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Plus, you need experience in a lab, and most high level lab equipment is prohibitively expensive for a private citizen to own, if not illegal. That's one reason universities are essential to train scientists nowadays.
[–]droppincliffs0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
Where do you find a job for that to pay off 10 years of debt? I'd rather use that debt for a house or asserts that will make me money (vending machine, pool tables, skidsteers, equipment)
I'd rather own stuff that will make me money while I work. I believe that's true success.
[–]Freeze952 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Physicists and mathematicians get paid to go to school. Nobody in those fields pays for their PhD unless they failed to secure funding (effectively a soft rejection from their university)
[–]droppincliffs0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Huh...TIL.
To be fair I'm pretty sure undergrad is still relatively expensive, though I suspect scholarships are more readily available.
Grad school though tends to be "free" in STEM. Granted, it has been a while since I was in school but 20 years ago I was getting paid minimum wage + 50% for a stipend, free tuition, and half my health insurance was paid (with access to a ridiculously cheap group plan, since students in general are cheap to insure).
Now, obviously somebody with a BS is going to make more money going right to work, but the stipends are adequate to live modestly without going into more debt. It is a bit like indentured servitude, though you can leave at any time. Maybe an apprenticeship is a good analogy. The public gets its R&D done at well-below-market costs, and the student gets experience.
[–]NoThirst1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
That might be true success for you...not for everyone.
[–]droppincliffs0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
True. We all are our own person. Success for other people might be just having a plate of food everyday.
[–]Trek135 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
try getting an engineering job without the degree..
[+][deleted] 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Hey. I will say it. I'm not book smart. I can run a job site and manage people though.
[–]LegoCamel60 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
For comments lIke this we need a dislike button.
[–]Neutral_User_Name0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Street-smart people do not go to college.
[–]clybourn0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Smart people don't go into debt for college. Smart people get scholarships.
[–]uglyrabbits5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Or the low IQ men don't work at all. Sorry but where is their chart?
[–]NoThirst4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
women also constantly change their major. Each time you do the clock gets reset...this is why women have on average higher student loan debt than men. The change in major is rarely to a harder, more rigorous subject area (STEM), but usually downwards due to difficulty in pre-requisit mathematics or science. If you cant get past a statistics 101, or physics 101 pre-requisit...Gender Studies starts looking pretty interesting. Case in point my lovely cheating x-cupcake...started out her fresh year in Accounting, couldnt get past a require statistics class...quick switch to Nutrition at beginning of soph year, couldnt get past required lab science (Bio.)...quit college at end of 2nd year to marry me, with my STEM degree and ability to pay her bills....fast forward 35 years and here I am at MGTOW. An American dream.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You've missed the obvious answer: IQ tests are an oppressive tool of the Patriarchy.
[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
IQ is just a number and doesn't really mean that much.
To answer your question, women prefer social settings. If math jobs had the chance to gossip wit other females, they would all do math.
[–][deleted] 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
IQ scores above, say, 140 are meaningless, that is it doesn't matter if someone got 160 or 240 because the tests are tailored for average humans. Other than that, IQ tests are alright to measure intelligence. Fun fact: IQ tests are designed so that men and women get equally high scores (and it doesn't even work). An actual intelligence test would focus way more on logic and "working memory", but then women would get laughingly low scores in comparison to men :D
women prefer social settings
Actually, everyone prefers high paying jobs, and everyone knows that STEM pays more than many other degrees. There simply are no excuses for pursuing a degree in feminist dance therapy.
[–]fmanly2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Sure, everybody who actually works prefers such jobs. However, if your goal is to major in "marry a wealthy guy" then perhaps dance theory might just work out for you.
[–]NoThirst1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
...and hence the coveted MRS degree.
[–]Smoothtank0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
Nah, not at all. It's like looking at a mutlifaceted stone and just looking at one facet and trying to guess at the breadth of the stone.
There are all kinds of intelligence that aren't even acknowledged, let alone tested for in IQ charts, and they don't really concern themselves with mechanical aptitude, emotional intelligence, or basically any of the entire spectrum of human existential intelligence.
That's why you can have high caliber athletes fail the wonderlic test, but their brains are advanced well beyond super intellects with spatial intelligence.
Go pull some yuppie out of harvard and send them into the woods with some 80IQ marine grunt and see who comes out alive.
Intelligence is such an immense thing which is why an IQ test is a paltry assessment of one's intellect or potential. It doesn't even recognize.
An IQ test suffers from the same limitations as we do, and that is it doesn't know what it doesn't know.
IQ tests are horseshit. Not to mention they're only a snapshot of someone's aptitude for a few specific criteria at a specific point in time. With the correct exposure and experiences, the results can be completely different.
There's always been a difference between "street" and "book" "smarts." There are potentially infinite facets of intelligence that deal with one's perceptions of the nature of things. And that doesn't even really get into abstract intelligence.
The only conclusion I can reach is that investing in IQ test results is decidedly not intelligent. Ironic.
I agree with most of what you said. IQ test are still useful though, for the same reason giving grades to students is useful. IQ tests cannot measure the actual intelligence and grades cannot measure the actual performance of a student, but we still need to compare the ability and performance of individuals somehow.
[–]Thusspake3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
IQ is a very good predictor of how innately capable someone is of being successful in education. It was designed as a quantifier of educational aptitude.
[–]yayeey152 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
What they actually found is that people with lower iq are more successful in education because they are better at "working" and developed better study habits etc.
The only thing IQ says anything about is your ability to do iq tests.
[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Every female I've ever met goes to college to either study Education, Nursing, or Social Work. Rarely anything else whereas males run the gamut.
[–]Coluphid16 points17 points18 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
To be fair that's where a woman's strengths lie. Nurturing and caregiving.
I see nothing wrong with certain trades being female majority so long as they can get the job done.
One obvious issue however is a field like teaching where they edge out male teachers - critical to children's development to have male and female instruction - while creating a toxic work atmosphere for males.
[–]fmanly1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm not sure that women are necessarily innately better at such things, but perhaps males are attracted to higher-paying jobs?
I might not mind teaching but I'm certainly not going to do it for what teachers get paid. This is why STEM suffers so much in school. Those most qualified to teach it have so many better-paying options. That, and unions usually ensure that you can't pay the STEM teachers any more than the art or history teachers.
[–]Coluphid0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Men and women have complimentary strengths and weaknesses.
When working together, in sync with these traits, we can achieve truly great things including the ascendancy of mankind.
Unfortunately (((those))) pushing feminism (among many other socially deleterious things) know this and instead are trying to upend this by having each gender play to their weaknesses and marginalize their strengths.
Or nursing/social care, which is increasing in size rapidly while lacking investment (Same old story) - yet the guys will have to deal with being a minority or even single representation in a female majority atmosphere, low pay but opportunity at quickly escalating upwards due to demand.
[–]kidfay9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Here's with the points labeled.
[–]neutron_1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
How come Physics lies higher than Mathematics? We think mathematicians are God.
Maybe you need a lot of intelligence to apply all the nonsense the mathematicians come up with in the real world.
[–]Neutral_User_Name0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Where is medicine? Off the charts?
[–]Trek131 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
not sure about medicine. Probably lots of memorizing and less critical analysis and problem solving/abstract thinking. Certain types of surgeons should probably be classed separately (as in higher IQ)
[–]Neutral_User_Name2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I have a been involved in the medical field for a few years, about a decade ago... I met lots of everything: neuropaths, psychopaths, dumbs as a stump, lots of quizz savants (memorizing champs and not much else), but also some of the most brilliants people I have ever met. I guess you are right, it all evens out!
Lower end was represented by both men and women, the most surprisinly brilliants were in large part men.
[–]Cunt_Robber4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Health professions: do they clump doctors in with all the whiny nurses who do the bare minimum and gossip incessantly? Cause it looks like a female dominated field (which it is, but it's usually male doctors doing significant tasks and making the important decisions).
[–]SnapshillBot1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
I wish all the dots were labeled. There is one field that is roughly 80% women with 120 IQ. I'd love to know what field that was. Any guesses?
[–]Robonglious1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link
Legal
Edit: I like this graph and I hate it because it seems flawed in several ways. I don't disagree with the point, but I don't think this graph really proves much.
[–]Trek131 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
its just data. how is it flawed? can you point to a better graph?
I do wish all the data points were labeled and that it started at the low end of IQ to better show the wider male IQ distribution. But they probably cut the IQ off at 100 as very few people below 100 attend college
[–]Robonglious1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I don't know of a better graph and I do appreciate that it was posted.
My biggest issues are with IQ tests in general. I've taken academic level tests myself multiple times and scored around 135 each time but honestly I don't feel very smart most of the time. That's another debate all together and don't have too much time today for that.
I just don't feel like there's enough info around the graph. Does this span 50 years or a semester? Where was it done, national? How many people were part of the study? Etc...
[+][deleted] 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
[–]Robonglious0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I've never seen that before, thanks for sharing.
I don't believe there is any benefit to thinking you're smart. I try a little harder when I encounter something I don't understand because of my inadequacies. I think it makes me more open to new ideas and people because if someone else believes something maybe they're smarter than me about the topic.
What if the only thing that makes me smart is the belief that I'm stupid? That conclusion may be in the article, I'll investigate when I have more time.
[–]ShiverinMaTimbers1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Art, Enlgihs, libarry, humanities?
[–]MaunaLoona[S] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
/u/kidfay provided a labeled graph: https://i.imgur.com/aOXlsH0.png
It's Critical Theory... aka Cultural Marxism.
[–]mgtowtrp1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'd like to see where Women's Studies falls on this
[–]DeusExMaximum1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
IQ=80
[–]BukM11 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
as a physics graduate (long time ago) I welcome the news.
[–]proteins9111 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm a woman with a degree in one of those male dominated, high IQ fields. I think it's quite presumptuous to assume men have higher IQs based solely on this graph.
Men are pressured to pursue high paying, quant heavy fields from an early age. As a result, men who are intelligent enough to pursue physics, engineering, etc are more likely to than women. Men with lower IQs are more likely to end up in fields like psych and social work. Women aren't pressured in the same way. For a woman, it is more socially acceptable to be a teacher than it is for a man, and so many women with high IQs will end up as teachers. Therefore high IQ woman are less concentrated towards physics and engineering and instead are well mixed between fields. This situation would result in a graph like the one here, despite similar IQ distributions between men & women.
It would obviously be silly make conclusions based on the graph above without more information. It's certainly possible (though unlikely) that the men posting here are right and high IQ people are mostly men. It's also possible that there are just as many high IQ women but they are mixed between many different fields. If men are so much smarter though, then why are so many men posting here jumping to conclusions based on insufficient data? I suppose its possible that the posters here are skewed towards lower IQs than the average man...
[–]Trek131 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
so, you have data to back up your opinion? Empirical evidence would suggest that men do in fact hold a disproportionate share of the higher IQ population. Look at who actually built this world, who hold the vast majority of technical patents, who developed science and technology, etc.
I cant imagine a high IQ man being satisfied in a low IQ occupation. The sheer boredom/lack of challenge would be even more disincentive than the low pay. Perhaps that is a fundamental difference between men and women? High IQ women can actually find satisfaction in low IQ occupations? That is presuming that your assertion that high IQ women are equal in number and more widely distributed among professions is in fact true.
Show me your data that would counter this.
Gee I wonder why ... lol
[–]siege3420 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
No genders study?
[–]Sorry_no_change0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The real joke here is OP claiming that any of those top fields have good pay and lucrative job markets
[–]armaadi0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's not that women aren't smart; it's that they choose to do easier work and work based on their whims. Psychology might be interesting, but unless you are going to pursue Doctorate levels of education, you aren't going to get paid. They choose to go into medicine to help people, but they only go into nursing. Dentistry is cool! I'll be a hygienist instead of an actual dentist. They want to do work they like and work they can leave when they want to have kids.
[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Question I've always had: If feminists et al don't believe in gender, then does the gap exist?
May sound trite, and likely is, but I haven't got an answer yet lol.
[–]quixoticme11 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Most feminists are not gender critical feminists. Those that are believe in socialization that occurs as a result of anatomy, i.e. the famous brown eye blue eye teacher demonstration.
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