Movement?

DangZagnut · 2019-01-31T15:29:16+00:00

IMO, MGTOW is an individual lifestyle choice.

A movement would imply a collection of people with a shared goal. Mens Rights is a movement. They have desires and goals.

Movement is almost always involved with some political action, demonstration, demand, involving leaders, a defined ideology, a list of demands, etc.

MGTOW doesn't do any of that. Individual MGTOW might also be MRA, or trying to change things, and that's great, but has nothing to do with MGTOW.

MGTOW is like "bachelor". Is being a bachelor a movement? If two bachelors hang out is it a movement? if it's a bar full of bachelors are they protesting something or have a list of demands?

No. MGTOW "demands" would be "leave me alone".

It's not a movement, it's a lifestyle, and the subreddits about MGTOW is a bunch of people with a shared lifestyle hanging out.

WILKESwithouttheE · 2019-01-31T15:31:14+00:00

A movement seeks to spread, they have a unified goal wether it be political or something else. There's usually leaders in the movement. MGTOW isn't trying to spread. It spreads on its own. MGTOW doesn't have any unified goal. Every man's goals are different. They are personal and unique to them. MGTOW has no leaders. There's no one trying to lead MGTOW.

Finally, the biggest difference is that movements seek social validation. A movement without any social validation cannot grow and take off. MGTOW only seeks personal validation. It doesn't seek social validation. So the how does MGTOW keep growing? It's simple. Men get tired of the BS and try to find a viable alternative. The best alternative being MGTOW.

GlobalAsshat · 2019-01-31T16:00:29+00:00

A movement implies there's one head honcho with a specific set of rules to follow like commandments. That is the antithesis of what MGTOW should stand for... I'd define is as a man who has simply woken up to how the system works, woken up to female nature, woken up to human nature, a man who has decided to unplug from the system, to pursue self mastery, or simply his own passions.... usually when people discover it they still have red pill rage. The goal is to get out of that rage and achieve peace of mind. Some get stuck in the incel or black pill phase while giving themselves a MGTOW label. In my opinion that's not really being MGTOW.

It's simply former beta males realizing they were beta males and deciding to not play that role anymore. Beta males have been around for many tens of thousands to perhaps more than a hundred thousand years... through the development of our species but especially during the onset of civilization. It's realizing the laws of the universe, the laws of nature, the idea that the 80/20 rule tends to apply to all of nature.. it's using knowledge to break free from cultural programming and no longer being naive, or blind to reality... no longer being one of the faceless solders being told they must march into battle and give their lives fighting some nameless, faceless beta male doing the same thing on the other side, being told they must be a slave to the state to support Chad's kids... being what amounts to a blue pilled zombie in our culture who never pondered the idea that life could be any different... breaking free from conditioned habits and seeing reality as it is and not as you were conditioned to think...

Swallow the red pill and free your mind....

TigPlaze · 2019-01-31T16:41:08+00:00

We don't organize protests. We don't go out recruiting. We just opt out of the marriage rotten deal and build up great lives.

Hodgekin · 2019-01-31T19:11:31+00:00

It's a good question.

A movement implies a gathering or collection of people. There is a lot of similarities in that regard, as many who seek out mgtow ideologies gather on online forums. Some might make friends and meet in real life, like the MGTOW summit that happened like 1-2 years ago(?). Not only that, mgtow ideology is spreading, even though people will not wear the label mgtow. We have people who dedicate their time teaching others about mgtow. Not so much as a leader, but because of their charisma or knowledge, many people do look up to them as such.

Now why mgtow isn't a movement is quite simple. It's in the ideology itself> going their own way. Men will gather briefly to discuss and learn. But once they got what they came for, most will live their own life, an individual life.

I would use myself as an example. For the first 5 years of learning about mgtow, I was devouring every bit of knowledge I can, watching videos everyday, commenting on forums here and there. But in the past 1 year or so, I stop doing most of that. I haven't watch a mgtow video in months and this is my first comment in over 8 months(?). Slowly I will be doing my own thing, not caring much about other people and their problems. I will still label myself as mgtow but I won't be actively gathering with a mgtow group in any physical way.

There is ofcourse exceptions, those that seek to make Mgtow into a movement. That will probably happen one day, no doubt. But it would be contradictory in a sense if that were to happen. Because a gathering of mgtow would imply that those people are not going their own way, but the way of someone. I'll leave it at that.

2019-01-31T20:54:36+00:00

Movements have leaders.

Legal_Adviser · 2019-01-31T23:10:13+00:00

It IS a movement.

It's right there in the name: Men Going Their Own Way.

TRP is the philosophy behind it which has motivated or supported other movements like Men's Rights. Just like any movement, it's participants spread their philosophy (via various websites and forums) and have clear goals (the dissemination of TRP philosophy). MGTOW actors encourage and support eachother, just like other movements, they even get together for meetups.

The main difference is that, like Libertarianism, MGTOW is essentially focused on leaving other people alone and expecting that they should be left alone as well.

It's a movement alright, just a soft one. No one is being forced, coerced or guilted into participating and dissemination of the philosophy is a secondary concern to actually employing the philosophy.

HesperianDragon · 2019-01-31T17:07:15+00:00

Lack of marches.

All other movements want to have marches here or there, MGTOW does not demand your time/money/energy/attention in that way.

(There are other reasons too, but I wanted to point this out.)

WILKESwithouttheE · 2019-01-31T18:07:28+00:00

This has been a fascinating conversation. Thank you, to those who shared insight. Good luck on your way!

madmen3322 · 2019-01-31T18:19:47+00:00

Movement definition (as it relates to this context):

3) a group of people working together to advance their shared political, social, or artistic ideas. "the labor movement"

synonyms: political group, party, faction, organization, grouping, wing, front, lobby, camp; coalition "the labor movement"

a campaign undertaken by a group of people working together. "a movement to declare war on poverty"

synonyms:campaign, crusade, drive, push "a movement to declare war on poverty"

AliBarakat · 2019-01-31T21:30:36+00:00

It's an idea, not a movement.

DonMelbourne · 2019-01-31T22:18:05+00:00

The Merriam-Webster defines it as the following: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/movement

a series of organized activities working toward an objective, also: an organized effort to promote or attain an end e.g. the civil rights movement, a movement to increase the minimum wage

If MGTOW starts having organized activities towards attaining 'its objective' (which is about individual change anyway) then it might start to become a movement. But it isn't at the moment.

Nzt34 · 2019-01-31T23:02:27+00:00

Because every man that identified himself as MGTOW, have different principles. There is not a rule list or leader to follow.

FlourishedCass · 2019-02-01T14:50:30+00:00

I'm defining a movement by it's definition.

a group of people working together to advance their shared political, social, or artistic ideas.

MGTOW isn't about the group; it's about the individual.

We aren't a group working together to advance a shared set of ideas. We all go our own way and do our own thing. We don't have a default There's not actually that many universal MGTOW ideas when you look at it. We have a mixture of left wing, right wing, anti-abortion, muslim, fathers, jewish, married men and so much more.

It'd be impossible for MGTOW to be a movement because we don't have a universal set of common political, social, or artistic ideas. Of course there are some common ones, like "don't cohabitate" but not everyone believes that. The only universal rule of MGTOW is to go your own way, which is such a broad topic.

Just because the philosophy of MGTOW is reaching more people doesn't mean that it's a movevement. It isn't shoved down their throats at rallies and protests, and on subway posters, or on the TV. We don't have MGTOW missionaries knocking doors down. Most people seek out MGTOW themselves.

mentalidade_logica · 2019-02-01T21:00:35+00:00

A movement = 1) central head-office + 2) a leader + 3) a common cause.

Nope, MGTOW is not a movement.

MGTOW = SOLUTION. (Thus MGTOW have no doubt higher than above average IQ).

TomahawkSuppository · 2019-02-05T14:49:10+00:00

When was the last time you saw any politician run with MGTOW approval? Ever seen any MGTOW backed legislation? Is there a MGTOW PAC? We aren’t a movement, we are guys who have checked out of a society that wants to kick us while also demanding that we stand up and defend it. Fuck that, I choose to contribute as minimally as possible and in most cases none at all.

TheSud007 · 2019-01-31T18:10:50+00:00

MGTOW is not a movement it's a Philosophy.

KhajiitFL · 2019-02-01T01:00:58+00:00

To say MGTOW is a movement would be a paradox.A movement has a goal. MGTOW's goal is "Go away, hooker."

Such a thing has only 2 logical outcomes:

<span class="md-spoiler-text">Return to the dating market as an improved product</span> Where the blind followers never were MGTOW
<span class="md-spoiler-text">Radical separation from our current society</span> Great, we're practically hermit monks and the ideology dies back off, dooming us to repeat.

Title	Movement?
Author	WILKESwithouttheE
Upvotes	1
Comments	49
Date	January 31, 2019 3:15 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW2
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW2/comments/alqfbz/movement/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW2/movement.814303 https://theredarchive.com/post/814303

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