Skeptical about MGTOW.

ManofGod1000 · 2021-07-29T02:07:01+00:00

As Joker says: It is like trying to find a needle in a needle stack.

Oh: and it is not an ideology, it is a philosophy that men come to on their own. I have been there for about 21 years and only realized it the last 2 years. I put zero effort into being with someone because, and I finally realized it, I do not want to be with anyone.

Edit: Just for more info, I mean I do want to be with anyone, anymore. :)

NoMarriageNoKids · 2021-07-29T02:11:59+00:00

Understand that the majority of people here on MGTOW subs are teens or 20s with no real female experience. The horror stories in the media are enough to turn them off to them.

I, myself, keep interactions with women very light because of crap like cancel culture, MeToo, etc. But, I know NAWALT. I've had plenty of relationships that were fine. Only been fucked over once and that was the wife. Still paying that C over 10 years later.

In general, if you observe the 3 pillars... no marriage, children, or cohabitation then odds are good you'll be fine. I even cohabitated with my last ex before diving deep into TRP. We broke up but there wasn't any drama with police or courts.

Some women have wicked hearts and some don't. Simple as that.

StandAloneBro · 2021-07-29T03:57:25+00:00

Some of you guys think all women are terrible human beings that just want to drag men down. That they’re out to get you.

I think that's a mischaracterization.

It's not that they're evil or terrible. It's that they're self interested (as everyone fundamentally is), and following a specific set of predictable behavioral patterns and strategies built into them by evolution and nature.

The issue lies in the fact that modern..

technology (birth control and online dating)

laws (rape, divorce, family court) and

social narratives (men are evil and women are angels)

..have all conspired to both exacerbate and incentivize the negative aspects of the female biological imperative, while simultaneously concealing it from unsuspecting men.

This perfect shitstorm of incentive structures essentially brings out and normalizes the absolute worst aspects of what is perfectly natural for women, while simultaneously tearing down or stigmatizing the best aspects.

Add into that the demonization of what is perfectly natural in men, as well as the utter kneecapping of male agency in the whole endeavor.. and it all adds up to a raw deal that is just not worth it for men.

But that does not mean women are evil.

They are just flawed human beings, running amok and behaving like spoiled children.. as one does when they are placed into a perversed incentive structure that encourages and even rewards shitty behavior at every opportunity.

shroud_of_saints · 2021-07-29T03:55:06+00:00

Marriage worthy women exist, but the probability of finding one is low. I swore off western women in my early twenties and moved to east Asia to find a girl that would meet my standards of being a traditional wife and a good mother to my kids. When it comes down to it, if you are able to lead in the relationship, set all boundaries, don’t give into their bs and not be a total loser, you might find success in marriage, if that is what you want. Going your own way means doing what you want to do, not what other guys are doing. You can pick and choose what is suitable for you. Just make sure to always protect yourself.

As for guys hating women. Look, all popular media tells us that men are bad, women are the best and we should treat them like queens. I don’t feel any hate towards women, but I can understand why some guys would.

cleats4u · 2021-07-29T02:32:25+00:00

If you date a women long enough won’t she show you her true colors eventually?

__________________________________________________________________________________________________

Yes she will eventually show her true colors if you date her long enough. And, if you do that enough times? Look at all the time and money you have wasted that you can't get back hoping to win that lotto and find "the one". If you can make it through all of that then you get to step into the arena where she takes half your shit. Winning! NNooooooo!

WhereProgressIsMade · 2021-07-29T02:30:07+00:00

There are very few places where men can vent a little about women. At least that’s my explanation for why you see it here. Most subs stuff like that gets deleted and banned so you just don’t see it.

There are decent women out there but each year there seem to be fewer. Power corrupts.

nathanv70 · 2021-07-29T15:05:34+00:00

You make a lot of good points, you really do. I however, would like to address your paragraph about men thinking all women are terrible human beings that want to drag men down.

We don't think that. Men are angry/upset/disenfranchised because we learn that everything we've been taught is a lie. Here is a fundamental truth: women's sexual interests COMPETE with men's, and what is good for one is not necessarily good for the other. Finding out that the disney fairy tale isn't true devastates men because we love idealistically. We want to believe the best and are devastated when we find out it isn't true. Women's mating strategy is two-fold, they want to have babies with the most ambitious/attractive man they can find, but they also desire/need someone with a lot of resources because raising a baby puts women in the most vulnerable position of their lives. Babies NEED to be taken care of and resources are a part of that. When women's sexuality runs out of control to their own detriment, they then concentrate to the lowest denominator.

Meaningful connection - You can have meaningful connections with anyone without involving the government in your life. You can have male friends, play sports, go to the gym, learn a hobby, etc. There are many levels to MGTOW because you cannot determine when you FIND the red pill. You cannot help yourself when you realize the truth. I am married, and I found the red pill content after I was married and it opened my eyes. Now, I love my wife but my blinders are now off. I know what shit tests are, I know what attention seeking behaviors are, I understand how to NOT discuss my big problems with her, I have learned so much because of communities like this. For my brothers that are not married, yes, it is a VERY dangerous institution now, BEWARE. I am not advocating FOR or AGAINST anything, I am simply learning and recognizing facts about reality and doing my best to apply them intelligently.

y-EYE- · 2021-07-29T05:14:20+00:00

I can definitely say I can live without sex. I’ve lived through much worse than a dry spell lmao. I’m focusing on my goals, saving my money, and spending my free time doing things I like. I’m enjoying life already. No need to chase girls around and jump through loopholes for “love” and sex. If it happens, it happens. If it doesn’t, I’m not losing anything.

SeaworthinessOk7174 · 2021-07-29T03:56:12+00:00

Better you than me. When you get divorce raped or put on child support I won’t feel anything and will continue living my peaceful life. Keep living the Hope strategy

drksoul426 · 2021-07-29T03:44:07+00:00

"its not every woman WILL do but every woman CAN do it"

tomgreens · 2021-07-29T02:19:30+00:00

The “look on the bright side of life” argument could apply to any sub.

Diligent-Education64 · 2021-07-29T15:53:08+00:00

Generalizations was the first attack on men's speech 22 years ago when I started doing this. The hot site back then was "StandYourGround". It was an MRA site with both men and women participating. The only rule was no generalizations. This severely limited the ability to have a conversation. Ten years later when MGTOW came around men where thrilled to be able to describe that behavior of most women with the term AWALT. Men knew that not all women are anything but it was as effective a strategy as "all men are rapists". A term still parroted by feminists everywhere.

Are AWALT? No. Most women are regular people who joined a labor union, feminism, and rely on their union in dealing with men. Feminists leaders are frequently lesbians who hate men to the core.

Dirty_Purity · 2021-07-29T12:04:16+00:00

Some of you guys think all women are terrible human beings that just want to drag men down.

Not all but bad woman pretend to be good so it is very easy to make mistake and pay a lot for it. I do not take these chances but it is a personal decision and I am not going to claim that it is the only correct one.

That they’re out to get you.

Actually they don't. I am pretty much invisible for them but I am just an average guy so it is not surprising.

On top of that don’t you guys want meaningful human connection?

I do. But as I mentioned it is too risky.

If you date a women long enough won’t she show you her true colors eventually?

A lot of women are quite good at acting. Well, at least good enough to trick me.

P.S Don’t say you can live without sex. That sucks.

I can and I have been doing it for many years. I am not going to lie - unsatisfied natural desires are unpleasant but I am willing to pay this price for freedom and safety.

TigPlaze · 2021-07-29T19:18:37+00:00

I agree with you that women don't have a secret, evil agenda to bring men down. The problem is, they have a ruthless and cruel instinct called hypergamy which directs them to seek out men to use, and often just use and discard when a better offer comes along. These instincts used to be kept in check (mostly) by religion and culture. Now, thanks to feminism, their brutal instincts run amok, and it's considered normal for a woman to claim to be equal and self sufficient while simultaneously searching for a rich man to use.

WastelandBoomer · 2021-07-29T06:55:04+00:00

I think you're correct on the absolutes; major generalizations are rarely if ever true. But my humble personal experience? Seen enough bad ones + dudes fall into pitfalls (false accusations, getting ass kicked over some drama/rumor a girl started, getting cucked with false paternity or stuck paying child support for non bio kids etc); it outweighs the good ones. I had lots of fun with Women in my 20s and late teens; at 28 I could honestly say I experienced enough sex to not care one way or the other 🤷🤣

But more importantly I believe in risk aversion; avoid risk/pain and pursue pleasure/resources. Their kind do not offer me any real benefits or resources that I can't acquire elsewhere. So why take the risk? My social skills are still sharp enough to deal with women if I'm forced to (coworkers, school, real life) or if I want to get laid/have some short term companionship. No reason to pursue "lOvE" or some silly Disney Ideal of the white picket fence.

MyMateJamal · 2021-07-29T05:36:31+00:00

Evaluate the potential damages (alimony, etc.) against the potential benefits (sex, etc.).

You'll find your answer.

howhigh69 · 2021-07-30T05:40:53+00:00

If assuming the mass majority of women are hookers or wannabe hookers keeps me out of bad situations, then I’m going to keep on generalizing women. I do what works.

prelude12342000 · 2021-07-29T21:57:28+00:00

When is the last time you saw an encouraging commercial regarding men and that men are good and needed in society? That's what i thought.

Ody_ssey · 2021-07-29T08:03:16+00:00

On top of that don’t you guys want meaningful human connection? Sex? Love?

Already have it. No need more. The outcome in the end is always the same.

[deleted] · 2021-07-29T21:54:47+00:00

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[deleted] · 2021-07-29T21:15:56+00:00

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unskillfull · 2021-07-29T16:45:23+00:00

I dont think that "all womens are like that" is a bad thing.

It is very important for human breeding. So I dont condemn womans for it. Maybe it is a reason I am now here, so I should be gratefull for it.

But that does not mean I want to be part of it anymore. Life is maybe mostly suffering, but I believe there is path in life (without womens) with much less suffering.

Projectile6002 · 2021-07-29T14:39:07+00:00

Stop with this NAWALT we understand but EWALT

Gantzen · 2021-07-29T09:22:19+00:00

The one thing in common between MGTow and Feminism is that most of the newcomers are going to be people that have been hurt and are pissed off at the world. I do not see the core of MGTow being misogynistic, and the moderators at least here in mgtow2 have done a fairly good job keeping it to a minimum. But yes, those that have been recently hurt are going to lean that direction. I do have to admit however, from knowing the tactics used by the SJW's, I question the validity of some of the posts that are misogynistic. Are they really newcomers or feminists trying to seed the echo chamber with misogynistic banter in order to lure out responses that they can then complain about?

No_Point_8751 · 2021-07-29T07:04:40+00:00

I don't think all women are terrible but I do believe that gender plays actually a role in how we interact.

And how deep it goes is a question that is kinda tricky.

Also I do believe that nowadays bad behaviors are rewarded a tad too much.

That being said you are free to GYOW however you like. It's not like anyone is urging you to not have sex or not be in a meaningful relationship.

Title	Skeptical about MGTOW.
Author	AcrobaticParamedic8
Upvotes	1
Comments	47
Date	July 29, 2021 2:05 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MGTOW2
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MGTOW2/comments/oto9zj/skeptical_about_mgtow/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MGTOW2/skeptical-about-mgtow.797356 https://theredarchive.com/post/797356

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