~ archived since 2018 ~

Misandry is making things genuinely difficult for me

March 12, 2023

Everywhere I go, I see adverts and posters telling me that men are abusive and harassing towards their partners. When I try to go to political meet ups, there’s always a comment about how “white men” are the problem and how women are better than them. When I tried going to a book club, I got told I was a “sexist” because I didn’t like one of the new Star Wars films. Whenever I’m on the internet I see people using the word “incel” as a casual slur. And if I call this out, I’m told that I’m a “misogynist” and that they “question my sincerity”.

I can’t use the internet. I can’t interact with people in real life. I HAVE to use public transport and be subjected to this nearly daily. And if I speak out, if I actually mention that this bothers me or “share my emotions” as feminists supposedly want, then I get the online equivalent of having my teeth kicked in for it. Literally wherever I go, whether real life or online, I’m literally under attack.

One question keeps popping up in my head, which is “what the hell fo I do?” Everything I do and everything I try just ends up making things worse?

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[–]parahacker 35 points36 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't know the answer.

Personally, I push back when I see it. I take the bloody mouth and just keep going. You can see it from my comment history, here on Reddit, and I assure you it's much the same in other forums and in person. But it's exhausting. And I'm already on disability for depression. I've essentially retreated from society, willing or not. I used to be *very* social; but events that happened to people I cared about, and some close shaves personally, have lead to a deeeep mistrust.

My best friend (male) was raped by a woman, who did it by threatening him with an accusation of rape. I sheltered a young kid who tried to kill himself for the same, when I owned my own home.

Getting assistance - even getting properly diagnosed - for my own issues was a damned nightmare, and I still don't think I'm there yet. I have almost no support network, and that's largely 'my fault' - but I vividly remember when I was younger going out of my way to help women who complained of issues... as a man, I feel invisible.

When I was younger, I personally have been catcalled, groped, etc. ---And you know what? That wouldn't even have been an issue, except for how the double standard is so damned vicious. It's like, women can do this to me, but the merest hint I do the reverse and it's war.

It's not even really the relentless misandry; that's bad enough, but what is most dismaying is what it represents in practical terms. Real, actual harm - not just hurt feelings. A word from a woman can destroy your social life. And does. Or get you fired. Or evicted from a venue - I should know, I was the bouncer that did it for a while, and for another while I was the bartender who ended up hearing most complaints like this. Or even a jail sentence, for some shit you didn't do but are automatically guilty of because, well, you're a man and your word is by default worth less.

Something has to give. Something must give, the relentless anti-men narrative has to lose its grip at some point, or things will just... fail, at some point. Sadly, any honest look through history tells us things don't necessarily get better; sometimes they just go bad and stay bad. It really takes a battle to buck the trend, or it doesn't get bucked.

So you take your bloody mouth, spit some out and keep speaking up. But it's hard. It is so damned hard sometimes.

[–]knightfluttershy[S] 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I’m sort of in the inverted position in that I’ve never been very social. I keep thinking that I should try to be more social but every time I try to go to these sorts of things I might be interested, I end up feeling way more isolated than I did before.

I’m sorry you have to go through all that, your situation is much worse than mine, partly because I’m already pretty much used to having zero social life as it is. That’s also the reason I don’t really know how to deal with it…

[–]needalife94 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Yea the term incel means involuntarily celibate. Now a days it's just thrown around as an insult. It has really lost it's meaning. Just like the term misogynist. It's actually weird when I think about it. Jordan peterson tries to help the young men to try to become more attractive to women. Among a bunch of other things. And he was labeled the king of incels. Why ? Because he was trying to help men do better? Wouldn't you want someone to help men do better in all these aspects of their life ? Apparently not.

[–]ZulutheZebra 11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Let me say this; I also greatly struggle with the misandrist rhetoric that gets bombarded on all media platforms daily. For a long time between that and the very few women in my life that were mostly anti-male I gave up hope. A couple years ago though I reconnected with my cousins wife (therapist) who is very fair and tries to see things from a guys point of view. She occasionally has her feminist moments but it’s rare and she’s always open to a discussion on it. I guess all that to say, it is true that some women legitimately do not hate men. There’s not many left but they are a gem if you can find them; I would say keep looking and cultivate your bros in the meantime. Even if you can’t find any girls that aren’t hardcore feminists if you get a solid group of bros to back you up it really makes all the difference, especially if they share the same views on a lot of the modern day bullshit.

[–]knightfluttershy[S] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

“ She occasionally has her feminist moments but it’s rare and she’s always open to a discussion on it.”

That’s literally all I’m asking for, I don’t want people to give up their views or agree with me in everything. I just want people in general to stop treating me worse than a piece of shit that they just scraped off of their shoe.

[–]SpiritualCyberpunk 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it bothered me some years in my life. Doesn't bother me anymore.

[–]throwawayddf 12 points13 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I know the feeling man. i am in a non enviable position where it doesn't bother me as much anymore so I don't have any advice. There are more people that feel that way and it's difficult to find them because to show how you feel is to be vulnerable to getting attacked. I would advice to never talk about it if you are with more than 2 people.

[–]46153849 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

This depends on where you are. I live in a medium-sized city in the middle of the US, and I don't encounter any of this IRL (in fact, I encounter the opposite). I encounter this online, so I just don't visit those spaces — or I'm careful when I do visit them. So I wonder if there are some more middle-of-the-road places you can go IRL and online where you might encounter this less frequently?

[–]knightfluttershy[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is essentially what I’ve been doing. Every time I get subjected to this, I just leave whatever group I’m in. Unfortunately this has been causing me to cut off quite a large amount of groups but it’s better than doing nothing.

[–]46153849 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Would it be possible to focus on adding people to your social circle? I agree, cutting people off sucks. But one way to deal with that is to start adding people to your life. Baby instead of joining political organizations you could join a hiking club or climbing gym or social/service org like Rotary where you might meet a different cross-section of people?

[–]BlackoutWalksAlone 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Oh my god! I'm not the only one that feels this way!

I feel this way all the time too. Recently I went out to a restaurant and they had this sign that said "Men go to the left because women are always right!" This shit really is everywhere, everywhere you look. I can't watch TV, watch movies, go online, or even read books without coming across shit like this. I think a big part of this is due to our psychology. Women preferring women and men preferring women over other men. So it's kinda like the average person on the street is a misandrist.

I was worried, still kinda am, that I have to keep silent about a lot of what I see and what I'm thinking so I won't get attacked for it. By both men and women. Clearly, there are a few people who can see this shit and maybe understand (mainly men I think) but those people are few and far between so unfortunately, the only thing I really do is keep it to myself. Which drives me insane's our reality. This also makes me distrust other human beings a lot and even this kinda misandry is interalized inside of me. Although I'm trying not to blame myself completely since I see and hear this stuff from the time I wake up to the time I go back to sleep. There's just no escape. This is why I think we live in a gendered dystopia.

I do thank you for making this post and making me feel a little less crazy.

[–]knightfluttershy[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think the important thing to do is never accept this as normal. It is never normal to be made ashamed of your gender or sex, or treated like there’s something wrong with it.

[–]lemons7472 2 points3 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

As a younger male I feel this too. I can’t even look up anyone having a similar idea about how I feel that women hate men, because even in google when I search up “I feel like women hate men” I’m just directed to articles from last year of women saying that they have a right to hate men, or that women saying that they hate men is ok, and justified.

Even in real life, women at my school make sexist generalizations about men about them all either being abuses, saying that they hate men, hell even mocking me specificity for being a male one time.

I feel like outside of the internet, outside of some parts of Reddit, outside of this sub, outside of r/mensrights, no one would take it too seriously if I vented this, and I certainly wouldn’t vent this to some irl women because I know for sure they would not take it seriously or even see it as “hate”.

Honestly I have no advice, this shit has just been hurting me since I was a teen and still am a young adult as a 19 year old.

It will legit leave you wondering for a small second if most women just hate you or see you as a predator, or just make up whatever reason to be assholes while justifying it.

It isn’t a nice feeling hearing people commonly justifying hating you for your sex or race, but I’m talking specificity about my sex.

[–]knightfluttershy[S] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

“ even in google when I search up “I feel like women hate men” I’m just directed to articles from last year of women saying that they have a right to hate men, or that women saying that they hate men is ok, and justified.”

Yup, done this too. If you ever want to get angry, try searching up “men are not better than women” and then “women are not better than men”. Whatever one you search, it will just be pure misandry plain and simple.

[–]lemons7472 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I’ve been told before and made aware of how Google and the internet in general treats misandry compared to misogyny, and yeah it makes me angry and honestly depressing and just reenforces me questioning if people just hate men. What’s worse is that those articles usually due away with the feelings how a dude will feel by saying “when women hate men they leave men alone. When men hate women they commit murder and rape” or make whether extreme comparison to make to justify their own hate. They use extremes of other bad men to excuse their own actions and see us as nothing but rapist and murders or whatever negative stereotype they can think of.

And I hate how supportive some people are of justifying that hate by saying stuff like “you have every right to hate men” or “it’s justified for you to hate men” both men and women.

[–]knightfluttershy[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

There is, sadly, a very large proportion of people out there who need someone to hate. These sorts of people are unable to come to terms with their own faults, so instead they just say that these problems are with group [X].

The whole “when men hate women they commit murder and rape” narrative is extremely important to these sorts of people: it justifies any kind of abuse because then they can say “Well, no matter what I do, at least I’m not as bad as they are, so I have the moral high ground and can do whatever I like.” So when they make men feel ostracised or inferior or isolated, they can still trick themselves into holding the moral high ground. It’s how every hate movement ever has spread: usually in history the excuse used to wipe out another culture is that they committed child sacrifice, so anything done to them is excused.

The only solution is for more people to take the time to accept their own flaws and imperfections. It seems simple enough, but I’ve noticed our culture, more and more, likes to spread the idea that men have flaws that need to be addressed and women don’t.

[–]lemons7472 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

That’s also what frustrating, with the logic that those hateful types of women use, you can literally hate any sort of group that you want, and I’ve seen men and women like that use that same exact logic to hate on people like me for my race too, that being hateful to black men seeing us as violent and abusers.

The only difference is that you might be more likely to get called out for your hatred of generalizing another group of people that aren’t white men or men at all.

Hell, I learned that with this logic, even I would have a reason “justify” hating women though experience from the past 3 years of assault, harassment and more, and “justified” through historical means, since it’s not like historically women were ever really kind to people of my race whatsoever, however not only do I not hate on groups of people at all, but I also know that would be a strawman to hate a group just because of my experiences, or history, or because I find hating xyz group trendy.

My point is that this type of hateful logic can be bite back directly at you, or anyone that uses this logic themselves, but obviously no one likes it when this logic is used on them and their group specifically, because again, it’s hateful.

Everyone has flaws of course, but it feels like just a tend to solely bash men and view all men as evil creatures and women as everything but bad, and anything hateful that a woman may say about your group as a male “justified” and your fragile for reacting negatively.

[–]BlackoutWalksAlone 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Everything you guys said is why I'm kinda wary around people in general and especially our human psychology which makes the average person on the street a misandrist. Like many people have said on here, I am really scared of speaking out on issues like this because I could easily get laughed at, shutdown or attacked. We really live in a gendered dysphoria I think and this doesn't make me hate women. More like.....distrust women and men (because both men and women have this type of thinking). I just wonder how a man can cope in a world like this. Unless they're in denial, they're unaware or they just don't care.

[–]lemons7472 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed, this is why I wouldn’t feel comfy about venting about the topic in detail live, because I specially feel like a lot of men wouldn’t understand at all and would think I’m talking gibberish if I vented about this topic of misandary and how it affects me, meanwhile I think a lot of the women would just shut me down instantly and argue that those things I have a problem with are actually ok, and that I shouldn’t be offended by misandry.

That last one about women arguing back for having a problem with misandry (in my case, my calling out their misandry of calling all men dangerous) has legit happened to me before once with a fellow female family member, but in general you got people who will shut you down and think your just being fragile for expressing having a problem with how some women may see you as a predator using sexist rhetoric, or how some women will justify hatred of you and your sex even, and how it seems to be being commonly pushed without little care of the sexist attitude. It doesn’t make me hate anyone, but it makes me angry and mistrust others for obvious reasons about this topic.

Even at school, I hear a lot of female peers do these things and you’ll sometimes hear them verbally talk about how they hate men or see men as all predatory abusers, (I’ve seen one of my peers in art class label all men abusive, and when my teacher actually said “well not all of them” she responded with “well your one of the good ones”, no I’m not lying) so none this really helps my trust with people, but even outside of the internet misandry will still affects us as men.

[–]AskingToFeminists 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry things are weighing on you that much. The world sucks. No debating that from my part. There are people out there who will hate you for being you. There are people who should know better or do better but are still terrible people or have very fucked up ideas.

You can try to change the world. But it's exhausting and almost never-ending. Any bit helps, but, well... what's more important is for you to gage what amount of effort you're able and willing to put, and not go beyond, or you will just despair.

Ultimately, though, there is only one thing over which you have control : yourself.

The joke goes "you have an issue? Can you do something about it? If you can, then there,s no reason to worry. If you can't, then there's no use to worrying."

What you can do is to train yourself to react to those things in more healthy ways that the blackest of despair at the unfairness of it all. It's hard work. But it actually works. And adjusting how you react to things might even help in dealing with those things when you decide to.

Note that I'm not advising you to "think positive/happy thoughts". I'm talking about training yourself to have healthy reactions, reactions that are appropriate but help you live better the situation.

What you can do, for example, is take notes of those situations that depress you, and try to come up with alternative ways someone who reacts healthier to those could react. Basically, it trains you to think of alternative reactions, to the point that it may becomes automatic after a while.

For example, you got told that you were a sexist for disliking a star wars. There are plenty of ways to react to such a thing.

  • You can question your whole worldview from scratch.

  • You can be deeply hurt that this person thinks so lowly of you.

  • You can think that person is deeply crazy for drawing such conclusions on such thin evidence.

  • You can consider that no matter what you like or don't like, some people will hate you for it, it's really impossible to please everyone, and you shouldn't try (or in the words of the dude : "that's, like, your opinion, man")

  • You can think this is just a random person and they don't matter

  • You can decide this is the hill you will die on and decide to question that person and why they would say such a thing

... or many more. Some of those reactions are healthier than other, depending on context. Your job is to find what you think would have been a reaction you could have had to it that would have helped you dealing with it in a way you would find healthy, and making a note of that.

From time to time, you may even re-read those alternative healthy reaction. As time goes on, you might notice that the number of notes in your booklet will not increase as much as you won't have that many unhealthy reactions you need to take note of.

It will not fix the world. But it will help you be better adept at dealing with it.

[–]knightfluttershy[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Thanks for the advice, and especially about the context being important. For example, online I’ve tried actually questioning people and it fails about 95% of the time, but then there’s that 5% who ultimately do change their minds.

I always try to accept that other people have different opinions, not assuming their intentions because they may have completely different reasons for holding them. But then when people can’t be bothered to reciprocate and give me the same basic courtesy is what gets incredibly tiring, and I should probably just disengage at that point.

[–]AskingToFeminists 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I always try to accept that other people have different opinions, not assuming their intentions because they may have completely different reasons for holding them. But then when people can’t be bothered to reciprocate and give me the same basic courtesy is what gets incredibly tiring

Plenty of people, online and otherwise, have no intention to reciprocate, have no interest in nuance, healthy exchanges of ideas, etc.

It can be frustrating, particularly when dealing with feminism and it's related misandry. At those times, I remember Conflict vs Mistake, realising that I'm dealing with a conflict theorist and that mistake theorist approaches will only lead to frustration and madness.

Understanding what you are dealing with is also a good way to diminish the frustration of dealing with such people. I do not guarantee it's better for the moral, or for gaining friends, though.

[–]vhisic 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

where are you that this is such a problem?

[–]Synchronicitousyzygy 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I genuinely experience the same things as you every day as well, this is how it is for millions of men but a lot of us don't speak up because like you said, we get the internet equivalent of our teeth kicked in, there's zero empathy for us, all I can say is you're not alone and myself and many other good caring men that just want to live their lives are going through this every day too, stay strong, come here, hit me up and I'll respond, helps to get things off your chest when you're constantly berated and attacked every day from every corner for just existing.

[–]TheDustLord 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s not just you. I’m trying to date and women keep hitting me with lines like “you could be a murderer!”

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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