A question/rant about the "Objectification" in modern society.

jolly_mcfats · 2013-03-05T23:21:27+00:00

This is probably a deeper topic than can be summed up in one reddit response, but some key issues:

1) Desirable traits in heterosexual relationships defined by classical gender roles are not identical. Women are traditionally desirable if they are attractive and fertile. Men are traditionally desirable if they are powerful and are good protector/providers. The equivalent of a busty woman in a swimsuit is a rugged man in a tie with a suitcase: because the tie and suitcase are symbols of his viability as a mate.

2) The term "male power fantasy" in itself is a constricting gendered concept. The man must attain power to have value. There is often criticism that these stories "reward" a hero with the girl, but strangely there is no criticism of the lack of stories/games where the female protagonist undergoes a quest to win the affection of a man. Until there is an appreciable effort to value men for something other than their financial and social status, the male power fantasy will remain the primary way for boys to envision validation.

3) Objectification actually refers to viewing someone as an object which is acted upon, rather than acknowledging their power to be an actor. An unrealistic body type is not necessarily objectification, many stronger forms of objectification are not called out (such as fanatic victim defense, in which the victim is assumed to have played no part in their tragedy).

as a final note- you might want to check out the misandry in the media series on youtube for a discussion about how men are frequently portrayed, and what some of the issues around that are.

Super_delicious · 2013-03-06T00:07:54+00:00

Show her pictures of modern action figures and perfume adds.

The_Cockpit · 2013-03-06T01:00:32+00:00

Personally I do want large breasted, barely clothed women, although I don't really see women that fit my definition of that plastered everywhere. That said, I get personally insulted by any marketing that is targeted to what is perceived as my base instincts.

DavidByron · 2013-03-05T23:37:30+00:00

Your answer is a good one. Basically they are princesses complaining about "objectification" as if it was something they uniquely feel when it's something everyone goes through and most people go through a lot worse than them.

Their response to you was to dismiss the life experience and genuine concerns of genuinely underprivileged people which is pretty much what feminists do. Narcissistic.

themountaingoat · 2013-03-06T00:56:10+00:00

Women like powerful muscular men, and also like to fantasize about being attractive. Look at the covers of romance novels for examples.

The fact is that what men find attractive is different than what women find attractive, and both sexes like to fantasize both about attractive members of the opposite sex and about being attractive. Most complaining about objectification is women blaming men for the way sexuality works, and also women being envious of the advantages for men of the way sexuality works without understanding the disadvantages for men.

rightsbot · 2013-03-05T23:06:17+00:00

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ScottFree37 · 2013-03-05T23:59:00+00:00

Someone mentioned this in another thread, and I don't think I've come across a better argument. Put bluntly "who gives a shit about objectification, when men suffer REAL DISCRIMINATION in the courts?"

When we live in a world that

it's generally accepted that if a woman kills a man, he was abusive.

A man has to pay child support to an unfaithful spouse for a child that isn't his because fuck you.

When women peadophiles are considered seductresses, while a 17 yo male is marked as a sex offender for life for having sex with his 15 yo girlfriend.

A young man can have his life ruined on the "preponderance of guilt" after an accusation of rape is levied against him AND men have no right to question their accusers in open court.

If objectification is the biggest concern you have, you got lucky.

Frankly with just those above (there are many more) hanging over our heads, I wish my biggest concern was objectification and we may start caring about it once the real issues are addressed

Deansdale · 2013-03-06T07:48:23+00:00

"Objectification" is meaningless general shaming language designed to bash natural male sexuality. "Certain body types in media"? So what? What does that mean? Apart from men liking big boobs and nice butts? Is that a bad thing? Should we be ashamed of ourselves?

And of course it is different when teen girls have C.Ronaldo posters up their bedroom walls. Their gaze is not evil like ours. This is just a variant of basic feminazi bullshit: men are evil no matter what they do, but women are angels even if they do the very same thing.

khanman915 · 2013-03-27T05:54:01+00:00

Okay, dude here with an objectification explanation:

In our culture, men and women are both programmed by society, but differently. Men are programmed to treat women as objects (i.e. things that fullfil a desire). Men are taught from a young age that women are a prize to be acquired and possessed, and devote an immense amount of time, energy, money and angst to attempting to accomplish this. Women, on the other hand, are taught to self-objectify themselves, to seek male desire/attention/recognition, specifically for their physical attractiveness. Women are supposed to be passive, attractive, DESIRED by men, not actively seeking out and possessing men. Women don't get to objectify men, they are taught to want to be objectified THEMSELVES.

What makes this unequal and to the man's advantage is that the male desire can be satisfied while the female desire cannot. When a man possesses a woman (whether this means has sex with her, makes her his wife or girlfriend, whatever) he satisfies his desire and can be content (although he might desire to possess other/more women). But the female desire for male attention/desire/recognition CANNOT ever be satisfied, because recognition can only be received, not possessed. Self-objectification cannot resolve itself, but requires constant input. It also keeps the male (hooray for me :P) in a position of power, because the female is kept permanently dependent upon him for something she is addicted to.

This is why so many male/female relations are so confused: men are all romantic/seductive/take effort whatever while courting/trying to secure sex/wooing whatever, but then slack off when they achieve their goal. (sex, one night stand, marriage, whatever). Women STILL are unsatisfied though, because they've been programmed to need male attention. So the man's like, "What the fuck? I wanted you and I got you, isn't it the same for you? You got me, so you're happy right?" While the woman's like, "No, I need a constant input of recognition and affirmation and that makes me hate myself too."

So that's why it's easier for men, even though we're also the victims of cultural constructions. Both genders are taught to treat members of the other as things that satisfy desires, not as other people. The difference is, at the end of the day a man can satisfy his desire, while a woman is stuck being emotionally dependent on a man forever.

2013-03-06T03:35:46+00:00

Feminists are brain damaged. Don't bother trying to argue with them, just disengage and don't listen to the vile shit they spew.

Title	A question/rant about the "Objectification" in modern society.
Author	mrhelpful
Upvotes	12
Comments	71
Date	March 5, 2013 11:05 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/mensrights/comments/19qkgj/a-questionrant-about-the-objectification-in-modern/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-questionrant-about-the-objectification-in-modern.1607569 https://theredarchive.com/post/1607569

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