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Another day, another false accuser, another man with a ruined life dragged through the ringer for nothing - chef Evans is found innocent

Rockbottom503

October 14, 2016
73 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-37659009
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Post Information
Title Another day, another false accuser, another man with a ruined life dragged through the ringer for nothing - chef Evans is found innocent
Author

Rockbottom503

Upvotes 73
Comments 86
Date October 14, 2016 4:14 PM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/57h5rf/another_day_another_false_accuser_another_man/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/another-day-another-false-accuser-another-man-with.939801
https://theredarchive.com/post/939801
Top posts by Rockbottom503

The irony of feminism using one murder victim to literally stir up a hornets nest of hate against men by using completely unsubstantiated, circumstantial generalisations as their "truth" and then having the government talking about legislation to deal with misogyny.

244 upvotes
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Media, literally portraying that offering help and guidance to lost, young men makes you the bad guy.

164 upvotes
April 10, 2021
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Shocking new craze sees young girls flash their bottoms and twerk over sleeping men’s faces. Now imagine the headline if it were men

131 upvotes
July 17, 2017
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All proceeds from the 5% tampon tax are to be donated to undisclosed 'women's charities'. Am I the only one out there that had a face palm moment on hearing about the obvious state sanctioned funding boost feminism is about to receive??

123 upvotes
November 26, 2015
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Another appalling female teacher sex offender! Just check out the ridiculous comments by the judge on passing sentence.

105 upvotes
February 1, 2016
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Jess Phillips MP, firstly, exposes herself as a sexist bigot...... And now, the traditional feminist switcheroo to becoming a victim of sexist oppression begins!

93 upvotes
October 30, 2015
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This came up on my social media feed - if you come across it please share. Let's start getting the message to the women and feminists, in unequivocal terms that they do indeed just look like a tit!

90 upvotes
June 15, 2019
/r/MensRights

Regardless of your circumstances, I just wanted to wish you all a merry Christmas.

89 upvotes
December 25, 2020
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–]famasfilms 17 points18 points19 points 9 years ago (54 children) | Copy Link

she didn't accuse him, she went to the Police with no memory of what happened and the Police decided it was rape. They lead this witch-hunt, not her.

[–]Rethgil 11 points12 points13 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The current toxic feminist atmosphere had everything to do with the vile reporting and media celebs slamming him though. That's the only real 'rape culture' we live in. A paranoid accusing one.

[–]Ganaria_Gente 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"evidence? who needs evidence? burn the male !"

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

Are you sure?

Why would she go to the police to not report that anything at all happened as far as she knew?

That doesn't make any sense.

[–]fuzzy70119 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

She didn't remember the night before. She went to police because when she woke up alone in the hotel room her purse was missing.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

She didn't remember the night before.

And ...

She went to police because when she woke up alone in the hotel room her purse was missing.

I'm sorry, but that's utter bullshit.

If the only thing she did was report a missing purse, the case would never have arisen at all.

You must understand that, right?

[–]DevilishRogue 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

No, that's actually correct. The police investigated what happened based on her reporting the missing purse, not her saying she was raped. The police and the CPS are just as if not more culpable than her for his false conviction, imprisonment, loss of career, money, etc.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

No, that's actually correct.

So you're saying that during the whole of the first trial, she stood there and said 'OK, so I never actually made any accusation - I was just trying to find my purse - but fuck it, yeah, he's guilty'?

The police investigated what happened based on her reporting the missing purse, not her saying she was raped.

Are you seriously buying this? I don't mean to give you a hard time (i.e. in the needles troll experience sense) but think about it:

You're a police officer on duty and a hungover 19 year-old comes into the station with her mum (as I understand she did) and says she lost a purse.

Are you really at that point going to leap from - night in hotel to rape - without at least some further information coming from the woman herself?

I don't mean to be an asshole - I'm seriously trying to say - how do you get from a report of a stolen purse to an arrest for suspected gang rape if and only if the woman who went into the police station only reported a lost or stolen purse?

On those grounds, even if the CPS was actively gunning to prosecute potential (high profile) rape cases I just don't get how the bobby on the front desk goes from lost/stolen purse to rape accusation ...

... unless the allegation came from the complainant and/or her mother?

[–]DevilishRogue 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

So you're saying that during the whole of the first trial, she stood there and said 'OK, so I never actually made any accusation - I was just trying to find my purse - but fuck it, yeah, he's guilty'?

That is pretty much it, in a nutshell.

Are you seriously buying this?

That it happened? We know it happened. It may be pretty barbarous but it happened without her ever once saying she was raped.

Are you really at that point going to leap from - night in hotel to rape - without at least some further information coming from the woman herself?

They probably asked McDonald and Evans if they stole her purse and they, being innocent, replied "No, we had sex with her".

I don't mean to be an asshole - I'm seriously trying to say - how do you get from a report of a stolen purse to an arrest for suspected gang rape if and only if the woman who went into the police station only reported a lost or stolen purse?

Through investigating a stolen purse and finding out two guys admitting to having sex with a drunk woman.

On those grounds, even if the CPS was actively gunning to prosecute potential (high profile) rape cases I just don't get how the bobby on the front desk goes from lost/stolen purse to rape accusation ...

Because the guys admitted the sex took place.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They probably asked McDonald and Evans if they stole her purse ...

Probably?

I think one or the other (or both) of us need to look into this further. Something isn't right in that recount of events.

[–]InstantMocha 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

She relays to the police that she has no memory of what happened.....he tells police he had sex with her.

It seems quite obvious to me why the police would look to investigate more than a missing purse.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

It seems quite obvious to me why the police would look to investigate more than a missing purse.

You're not even a teeny bit surprised to discover that the British police spend this much time, effort and resources on the missing purse of a 19-year old hungover woman?

You see nothing unusual about that picture at all?

[–]geniice 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

You're not even a teeny bit surprised to discover that the British police spend this much time, effort and resources on the missing purse of a 19-year old hungover woman?

Hardly a lot of effort. They knew the hotel in question. They find out who was staying in the room in question and interview them.

Theft from hotel rooms is the kind of thing you want to chase after because you get a lot of repeat ofenders. If you manage to catch the person the odds are they've done it before so helps both your detection and clear-up statistics.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Hardly a lot of effort.

Have you ever had any dealings with British police?

If and when you can find one at all, they are unbelievably unwilling to do anything at all.

We are talking about the same police force here who let 1,400 girls be sexually assaulted over a 10 year period* and yet now all of a sudden they are kicking down doors over a drunk girl's purse?

Really?

[–]geniice1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Have you ever had any dealings with British police?

No such organisation exists.

and yet now all of a sudden they are kicking down doors over a drunk girl's purse?

What doors did they kick down?

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No such organisation exists.

Pedant much?

They are police. They are in Britain. Therefore they are British police.

So sorry I didn't specify which specific force.

What doors did they kick down?

They didn't that's the fucking point numb nuts.

[–]geniice1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Pedant much?

They are police. They are in Britain. Therefore they are British police.

Might want to avoid that claim in certain areas. Scotland for example.

yet now all of a sudden they are kicking down doors over a drunk girl's purse?

That isn't a coherent response.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Scotland for example.

Scotland is in Britain you fucking twat.

Britain means England (with Wales) and Scotland.

That isn't a coherent response.

Probably because you cut and pasted that from an earlier response and not the most recent one.

[–]geniice1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Scotland is in Britain you fucking twat.

Doesn't mean they react well to being called british.

Britain means England (with Wales) and Scotland.

Wait till you find out about Cornwall. Regardless there is a fair degree of variation between forces and it is entirely credible that one would some effort into looking for a purse that they suspect was stolen.

Probably because you cut and pasted that from an earlier response and not the most recent one.

Which strangely didn't make difference to your coherence.

You asked "and yet now all of a sudden they are kicking down doors over a drunk girl's purse?" and then "They didn't that's the fucking point numb nuts."

Not very coherent.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Whatever mate

[–]trampson 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It's quite frightening how you're unwilling to understand basic facts of the case as it underlines how fucked up this case was from the very start, which seemingly goes against your pre-determined version of events and that Evans is the anti-Christ.

Welcome to the reality that men face.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's quite frightening how you're unwilling to understand basic facts ...

Yes, well it's good in terms of rhetorical style but I'm a bit long in the tooth for that kind of comment to get me all wound up.

Have you ever watched a Diana Davison video? I'll assume yes.

If you watch her videos, you'll see that she looks at aspects of the court report and then questions what is supposedly happening. She does this very, very well.

Now I'm not saying I am doing this as well as she can do it, but what I am saying is that it is a completely reasonable question to ask as to how this went from - supposedly - a report of a missing purse from a drunk 19 year-old to a rape trial and conviction.

I live in the UK and I can absolutely tell you are police are just not that diligent and especially not when it comes to drunk people.

There are real questions here and real gaps in the account that are worth asking and need filling in:

  • Why didn't the duty officer at the police station simply ask her to go back to the hotel and check there if the purse is all she reported and if she made no mention of the sex part?

  • What kind of 19 year-old British woman goes to the police for a lost purse in the first place after a night of heavy drinking? It's not impossible, but it certainly isn't common.

  • What about the woman's mother? The woman might not have made an allegation, but the mother ...?

All I'm saying is a report of a missing purse is not going to get the UK police to leap into their cars, sirens blazing, and hunting up and down the hotel for signs of it.

Never going to happen.

So there was something more going on there that prompted the investigation and as outrageous as the Mustafa Ururyar and Jian Ghomeshi and Gregory Allen-Elliott cases in Canada were (and they really, really were) that does not make my questions unreasonable.

I am certainly not portraying Evans as the anti-Christ. For someone who seems to be so hot on "understanding basic facts" you have clearly invented that. You only have to look at my criticism of the Telegraph article to see that.

[–]trampson 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're really having issues understanding basic facts, so I'll leave you to it.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice try kid

[–]Rethgil 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Lurking feminist alert. Derailing with new account. Reported.

[–]InstantMocha 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You should get a lurking feminist alarm. Its like a rape alarm but you wont get branded a slut or a liar if you try to use it :)

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Lurking feminist alert.

What a fucking joke you are.

Derailing with new account.

It's not that fucking new - and if you look through the entire history of that account you will see quite clearly that the label of "Lurking feminist" is really rather premature.

Reported.

You are so much like the people you purport to hate it's not even funny.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Go ahead and throw a tantrum. Throw some mud too if it makes you happy. Won't change that you were reported, for many aspects, not least of which is your abuse and anger you seem to think is okay to throw at anyone who disagrees with you.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

OK.

[+]muh-soggy-knee 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

So let me see if i understand this correctly?

He disagrees with your "Facts" which you have not actually sourced. This equates with his failure to understand them?

He argues that it is likely that the woman made a false allegation, rather than the police inventing it off their own back. And that criticism of a woman somehow makes him a lurking feminist?

He discusses the case at hand, and this somehow constitutes derailing?

And finally you "Report" him, do you have a tumblr account you can block him on too? Since we're going for the holy trifecta of moron here?

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"So let me see if i understand this correctly?"

Nope. But I did try to explain, regardless.

You also managed to confuse who posted what and described some things I didn't actually post. Get back to me when you figure that out or have read things properly.

On a separate note the facts you are trying to pretend are debatable are in pretty much every news report on the story, were admitted from the start even by her own defense, by people both pro and anti feminist, and are in the court reports. But don't let me repeating these things from you checking it out for yourself rather than being angry at me. Unless you check them for yourself, youre probably not going to believe anything I say anyway.

Have a good one.

[–]Rethgil 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Why? A fishing expedition fed by a opportunistic lawyer, a feminist biased culture and money. That's perhaps why. As for her, it sounds like at best she is a very 'troubled' woman. To put it overly charitably.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

A fishing expedition fed by a opportunistic lawyer, a feminist biased culture and money.

Are you British? That sounds more like North American culture to me.

And mean, we have opportunistic lawyers and a feminist bias in our politics and culture, but what I am having a hard time believing is that the police go from the incident with the purse to the rape allegation without either the woman or the woman's mother at least hinting that this might have been what happened.

And if she never made any allegation, how could it possibly have reached court the first time around?

[–]_Middlefinger_[🍰] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Its pretty clear you under estimate the UK police.

Yes, they will investigate some seemingly random minor thing like they are Sherlock Holmes. It also only takes one bored or biased person in the complete chain to turn something like this into what it became, and yes if THEY think a crime has taken place they dont care if the 'victim' doesnt.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

All this still leaves out the obvious aspect of politics, of local politicians interfering, wanting a higher rate of conviction for a crime it is very popular to be seen to be championing, especially when that case was suddenly in the national spotlight. Not to mention police higher ups with political aspirations or axes grind or under pressure from feminist groups as we well know the UK police currently is (see the problems and pressures they had over a simple campaign at reducing rape).

[–]famasfilms -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

You wake up in a strange hotel room with no memory of what happened.

Hang on, of course I'm sure, go read up on the case

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, well I've read a different version I'm sure of also - so it kind of depends on your source, doesn't it?

At least I'm willing to question the one I've read.

[–]famasfilms 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

https://www.crimeline.info/uploads/cases/2016/chedevansappeal.pdf

Point 10 is the relevant one

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for this as at least it's a good source ... on the other hand though ... That statement says (my italics):

She did not allege she had been raped; to this day she has not alleged she was raped or that she was incapable of consenting to intercourse. Her evidence was simply that she did not remember what happened ...

Her not remembering what happened does not mean no crime occurred (just to be clear, I'm not now nor was ever convinced that Evans should have been convicted of rape, but by the same token I have always acknowledged that I think the details were 'murky' for want of a better word).

So what I'm trying to get at is that if she never alleged rape, how the fuck did it reach court - ever?

At some point - surely - she must have been aware that the court case was happening and what it meant. So if she truly never alleged what had happened happened how the fuck did it get so far as to not only reach court, but convict Evans?

What I'm trying to say is that whatever she initially approached the police about, there must have been some notion in her head about the assault.

Because - and I'm sorry - but I just don't buy that a woman who has got so pissed up as to forget what happened the night before would go to the police to report a stolen purse and nothing more.

That literally makes no sense. Who does that?

You get hammered, you wake up without your wallet/purse - true enough, it's a bastard, but the lesson is to stop drinking so fucking much.

At the very least, you would ask the hotel staff first (but there's no mention of that)

And here's the rub - how the fuck do you get from "I'm sorry officer, but I want to report a lost/stolen purse" to "I was shagging two footballers last night"?

There is a serious amount of obvious questions not being answered here - even by that PDF you linked to.

[–]famasfilms 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

She went to the police to fill in how she got there

They answered her and decided the sex was rape,, they can find it what happened from cctv etc, you're really not very bright are you

Its really not complicated, now fuck off

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Its really not complicated,

A simpleton like you would say that. Fuck you too asshole.

[–]famasfilms 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Sigh, it only depends on your source if you are reading untrustworthy sources eg papers with an agenda.

Try reading actual court transcripts or legal blogs:

As the Court of Appeal made clear in its judgment allowing the appeal, X has never asserted that she was raped. She has always simply maintained that she had no memory of what happened. It was the prosecution case – the case theory of the Crown Prosecution Service – that she was raped.

https://thesecretbarrister.com/2016/10/14/10-myths-busted-about-the-ched-evans-case/

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Try reading actual court transcripts or legal blogs:

Right so - because a blog - a fucking blog - is written by someone with knowledge of the Law, it is therefore free from bias is it?

So by that standard, Charlotte Proudman - who is, after all - a qualified Barrister in the UK - is therefore unassailably correct in ludicrous assertions such as this one.

Really?

[–]famasfilms 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Did you miss the comment I posted seven minutes ago you halfwit?

https://www.crimeline.info/uploads/cases/2016/chedevansappeal.pdf

Point 10 is the relevant one

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

I've read and replied to it.

Cocksucker.

[–]Rethgil 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You're not a lurking feminist detailed are you? Only your account is barely weeks old and you are aggressive, confused and in denial of basic facts that are derailing the point that he was found innocent which highlights the shocking feminist hate that's been spread these past few months. Maybe just a coincidence, but thought I'd ask.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You're not a lurking feminist detailed are you?

Naturally, anyone with a differing opinion or an opinion that isn't 110% behind Evans' innocence must be a feminist in disguise, right?

If you've bothered to look at my comment thread, you'll have seen that I repeatedly mention the fact that I don't think Evans should ever have been convicted for rape.

Not only that, but you ought to look at some of the other things I've said.

you are aggressive

Only in response to people who have been aggressive to me first - I am trying to question the simplistic account of Evans good / Girl bad narrative here - and am being accused of being a feminist troll for doing so.

... confused and in denial of basic facts ...

No, I'm not.

Or if I am, then I am confused and in denial in the same way that Diana Davison is confused and in denial about Jian Gomeshi or Mustafa Ururyar.

Questioning reports in the news is quite important - even (especially?) - when they apparently seem to support your own worldview.

That isn't confused or derailing.

[–]Rethgil1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Your notion of people being 'aggressive' to you seems to be them saying they disagree. Met with you telling them to 'fuck off'. Ever thought there's perhaps a little imbalance between the two?

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yawn

Sorry, what?

[–]Rethgil1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Out of curiosity, are you male or female? I ask for a number of reasons. Course you don't have to answer but if you do I'll explain why I asked.

[–]DevilishRogue 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Whilst that is true, she did brag to friends about being about to score big financially. She knew what she was doing.

[–]InstantMocha 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You heard her say that did you ?

[–]ratesyorelote 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Source please.

[–]DevilishRogue 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Computer sleuth Mike Ross was in contact with Evans’s sister Kylie after he independently tracked down deleted tweets from the girl and posted them on his website following the shamed footballer’s conviction in 2012... The tweets were seized on by Evans’s supporters, who said the victim’s references to ‘when I win big’ and buying ‘matching pink Mini Coopers’ showed that she was hoping to turn the case into a cash windfall, though there was no specific reference to the case.

[–]paulybally 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The CPS is a joke, why on earth did this go to court only to have a 12-0 unanimous verdict go in favour of Evans.

[–]geniice 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well they did get a conviction the first time around which suggests they were correct in thinking there was a reasonable prospect of a conviction.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It said that two other men who had sex with the woman had described their encounters with her in highly specific terms that were virtually indistinguishable from Mr Evans's own account of what had happened. One of the encounters occurred days before the alleged rape - and the other in the days that followed. On each occasion the woman had been drinking heavily and the sex occurred in a very specific way - including the words she used to encourage her partner. Each time she woke up saying she had no memory of what had happened.*

This woman had sex with different men three days in a row and each day woke up not remembering what happened. What the fuck?

[–]geniice 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It was spread over a slightly longer period that that but yes. Some people drink like that.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In the UK, to even question the idea that a woman's drinking level might put her at additional risk is to be literally met with accusations of being a 'rape apologist', 'misogynist' and an actual 'rapist'. Even 'respected' papers of Left and Right wing persuasion will react that way now. To put it another way, currently in the UK, some aspects of feminism ssem to be even more out of control than in the USA

[–]TejrnarG 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I remember, I think it was about two years back, when I was driving on the motorway, I listen to a discussion about the case in the radio. That was the time where there was the big discussion if he should ever be allowed to play professional football again.

People could call and state their opinions. Almost everyone who called was stating that they do think he should be allowed for one or both of two reasons: (1) It might have been a false accusation (2) He was in jail, and did his time there, so he is a free man now, and should be able to live his life again

The radio moderator was a cunt, and was outraged about all these stupid people and their opinions. As soon as he realised someone is talking along these lines, he talked over them and quickly ended the call.

What an idiot, I hope he is ashamed of himself now. Sadly I cannot remember the radio station.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to be Mr Unpopular here but ...

... I agree that ,on balance, I don't it likely that Evans was a rapist.

On the other hand, the crucial point is that the woman met Clayton McDonald outside, flirted with him, agreed to go back to his hotel and started having sex with him.

What she did not do was meet Ched Evans outside, flirt with him, or agree to go back to his hotel.

Both McDonald and Evans say that the woman was enthusiastic about Evans joining in - when he arrived at the hotel later, once McDonald was already into it, and when Evans arrived at McDonald's invitation, not the woman's.

In other words, the woman effectively agreed to go to a hotel to go to bed with one man - McDonald - and at some point finds herself having sex with a completely different man - Evans.

I'm not calling Evans a rapist - it may well be the case that the woman of her own volition invited Evans to perform oral sex on her (as was reported) - but she doesn't remember it.

So in this case - as in all cases like it - it's a matter of Schrodinger's rape - i.e. it's both a case of rape and not rape until the moment it reaches court.

Worse, no matter what verdict is reached - or as in this case overturned - it will always be shadowed by its opposite.

So bottom line - in my opinion, I would say rape is the wrong description of what happened - but something was definitely just a little bit dodgy here.

[–]Rethgil 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah now I'm sure you're a feminist lurker trying to derail. Can you lot never accept facts when they don't go your way? And how can you stoop to such low tactics as this to get your way? Fitting in a way that ton the day she was proven to have been stooping low to accuse him that you'd stoop so low to try covering up the implications.

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah now I'm sure you're a feminist lurker trying to derail.

I find that very sad that you consider anyone off-script to be a feminist because in the same way, anyone off-script for a feminist is immediately a misogynist.

Can you lot never accept facts when they don't go your way?

What are you talking about? Admittedly, I dropped a word out, but I say quite clearly in the message you are responding to - right at the top:

... I agree that ,on balance, I don't [think]it likely that Evans was a rapist ... I'm not calling Evans a rapist but she doesn't remember it.

I am doing nothing more than making exactly the same point that Cathy Young made the other year in this article here.:

We don’t know whether Temkin is the victim of a false allegation; we also don’t know whether “Magz” is a victim of rape. We don’t know—and will probably never know, barring a confession from him or a recantation from her. But the rush to condemn Temkin and support “Magz” starkly illustrates both the power and the peril of unproven accusations.

[–]DevilishRogue 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

What was dodgy about her replying "yes!" to Evans saying "Do you want me to join you?" or about her shouting "fuck me harder!" whilst having sex with Evans?

[–]Xristos_Xristos_III -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Were you there?

Do you have A-V evidence that this happened?

No?

Then there's your answer.

Oh, and you remember that Evans's friends and/or cousin were trying to film the encounter through the window - apparently - from outside the ground floor room?

I've stated repeatedly I don't think he's a rapist, but I can at least acknowledge that this was very fucking sketchy behaviour ...

[–]DevilishRogue 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

All the witnesses testified the same thing and this has since been confirmed by previous sexual partners to be consistent.

[+]InstantMocha -9 points-8 points-7 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You are beyond fucking stupid.

[–]Rethgil 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ah the fem lurkers are out in force today to protect their heroine aren't they? Another one with a 'coincidentally' new account being abusive. Reported.

[–]InstantMocha 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I think your report went to the 'special filing cabinet'.

[+]InstantMocha -7 points-6 points-5 points 9 years ago* (7 children) | Copy Link

How the fuck could you actually know what she said ???

Seriously - how ?? Use some fucking common sense here. How can you seriously post here that "she said x or she said y".

You were not there.

People like Evans don't care about you. He wouldn't want to go for a drink with you. You are not on the same level (the fact that you see yourself in him, is the only reason I can think of, for you and people like you to want to so vehemently defend a stranger)

Rich successful guys like him do not rub shoulders with people like you. So why you would waste your time on here defending him with your illogical comments?

You are just another sad, angry, useless fucker with nothing better to do than read the DailyMail and then regurgitate the alleged actions of those involved as FACT.

Fucking pathetic.

[–]DevilishRogue 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

How the fuck could you actually know what she said ???

Because when questioned separately all four witnesses said the exact same thing.

People like Evans don't care about you.

What an odd thing to say. I've never met Evans and he's never met me but that doesn't mean that I should be unconcerned about him being falsely convicted of rape. What is wrong with you that you lack empathy to such an obscene degree?

Rich successful guys like him do not rub shoulders with people like you.

As someone who is rich and successful that sounds like some painful projection on your part.

So why you would waste your time on here defending him with your illogical comments?

Just what do you think is illogical about any of my comments? And why shouldn't I defend him if he is innocent?

You are just another sad, angry, useless fucker with nothing better to do than read the DailyMail and then regurgitate the alleged actions of those involved as FACT.

They are literally undisputed facts corroborated by the police through the questioning of independent witnesses. Even the alleged victim doesn't dispute them and they have been confirmed as a consistent pattern of behavior from her by ex and subsequent sexual partners too. You have to be pretty wilfully in denial to even consider the possibility that these facts aren't facts and an insane zealot to believe as deeply as you seem to that they aren't true.

Fucking pathetic.

One of us is, but it ain't me.

[–]InstantMocha 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

"As someone who is rich and successful".....I'm sorry but I'll have to stop you there. You can't be successful AND be on a men's rights forum......it's just not possible.

[–]DevilishRogue 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So, what have you been doing for the last three months? Prison? Insane asylum? Forgot how to use the Internet?

[–]Rethgil 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Reported. Sorry you feminists feel the need to lurk with newly created accounts to be abusive and aggressive but we aren't idiots and will not be trolled. Since Reddit requested people like you be reported I have done so. Apparently more and more feminists have been creating new accounts to derail, abuse and so on on the men's rights pages. You lot are easy to spot though. New accounts. Denial of basic recorded facts. Abuse. Go away.

EDIT.

And this poster claims to be from an Australian trainee teacher? Lovely. Good luck poisoning young boys minds.

[–]trampson 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A perfect fit in the current feminist misandrist hatred of Australian boys.

[–]InstantMocha 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

:)

[–]InstantMocha 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Auckland is in New Zealand.....not Australia.

If you are confused, you can look it up on a map.....do you know what a map is ?

[–]Rasalom72 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

And the laws protecting these people need to be struck down. If you come forward, you had better be sure you were actually raped.. otherwise you should be charged and prosecuted.

[–]EochuBres 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No. We're civilized folk here. If there is a false accusation, then the accused can take it to civil court and battle it out there.

[–]InstantMocha -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well if the rapists arent being prosecuted......

[–]geniice -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

For what? She reported her purse was missing. I'm not sure there was any evidence that it wasn't.

[–]Rethgil 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Look at all the social media posts by feminists desperately ignoring all the hateful things people said about him before he had a chance to clear his name. Sickening.

[–]19O5 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Women have too much power over men. Men can get their lives fucked despite having consensual sex just because a woman claims to have been raped. More men need to go MGTOW.

[–]geniice 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Which woman are you suggesting claimed to have been raped?

[–]LoneKharnivore 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

chef Evans

Ched. His name is Ched Evans.

[–]Rockbottom503[S] 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Aye, that it is - autocorrect fail I thought I'd leave in there just to annoy the overly anal among you! 😂😂

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