Consent is a female issue ?

thrway_1000 · 2015-03-21T21:54:39+00:00

Because of the false perception that men, by being men, are in a state of constant consent and need not be addressed, since no man would ever say no to a woman. This warped sense of masculinity has been pushed by feminist indoctrination, turning all conversations into gendered issues.

RememberWind · 2015-03-21T22:58:11+00:00

We live in crazy times.

Affirmative consent laws, laws that shift the burden of proof to the accused, police chiefs publicly announcing that no false accusers will ever be charged, not to mention all the other special rules that no other crime has, and what was topping the box office at this time again? Oh right - Fifty Shades of Grey.

she can withdraw consent at any time.

It's funny how feminists forget this when they start trying to rationalize the kinky stuff they're into, considering it directly contradicts many ideas they hold about sex, or at the very least, affirmative consent laws.

They always want to assure everyone that consent was agreed upon BEFORE the sex. Well, so what? Past consent does not equal future consent. Consent can be withdrawn at any time. And if the person is not required to say "no", then why would they be required to say a safe word? So there goes affirmative consent.

Lrellok · 2015-03-22T02:03:09+00:00

There are two issues I am seeing. First, cutting off sex is usually a precursor to divorce. We seriosly need "no fualt, no alimony" divorce reforms, but that is another day. The man agreed to use the cupons soley on the condition they where usable. If there was any condition under which they where not redeemable, they should not have been considered in the first place.

Second, the concept of "consent". I slept with a women a few years ago who I have never spoken to since. If I revoke consent tonight, can I charge her with rape? Yet this is exactly how "consent can be revoked at any time" gets treated. As a tool to cajol men into agreeing to things, then breaking her end of the deal.

I once took the standard that if any women wished to have sex, all she need do is ask, but I would not lift my smallest finger on the expectation that I would get sex for it. Most of the women I knew at the time are still not speaking to me.

Terrasel · 2015-03-21T21:44:40+00:00

I don't believe anyone here would say that to you o.O

azazelcrowley · 2015-03-21T22:04:58+00:00

Because of media campaigns to paint domestic violence and rape as a female issue.

5HourEnergyExtra · 2015-03-21T22:08:30+00:00

Hard to know what to make of social things like this. On the one hand, it really feels like the guy was lied to and shit. On the other, it's hard to say what the woman should do since it's not like we can make her consent. I think there's some value just in the awareness though.

iggybdawg · 2015-03-22T05:14:43+00:00

To answer your broader question, sexual consent has never been an issue for me (a man) in terms of women trying to force sex upon me that I don't consent to.

I usually have the opposite problem: women trying to enter into and stay in exclusive romantic relationships with me with an inadequate sex life.

Basically I do not consent to celibacy.

From my point of view, I am going to have sex, and she can't take that choice away from me. Her choice is she be my partner, or step out of the way for someone else to be my partner.

So I find it interesting that society punishes people who cheat or leave on a partner way harsher than people who destroy their romantic relationships by removing sex from it.

MRSPArchiver · 2015-03-21T21:39:45+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

Ted8367 · 2015-03-21T23:39:55+00:00

To be gender consistent, we should pass laws about men's consent to being conscripted. Ten-year sentences all round, down at the recruiting office, when the consent is withdrawn.

iggybdawg · 2015-03-22T05:04:35+00:00

OP wasn't mad at her for not consenting at that moment. OP was mad at her for making an empty promise. It's an important distinction you seemed to miss.

Yes, people are free to withdraw sexual consent at any moment, but they are not free to escape the consequences of breaking promises, which usually includes hurting the feelings of the promisee.

Insula92 · 2015-03-22T13:00:03+00:00

I said that the guy shouldn't be angry at her. that she can withdraw consent at any time. She could feel sick or whatever.

"consent can be withdraw" has to do with whether a rape happened or not. Not wether you should be angry at someone for refusing sex. How he feels about her not living up to her promises has NOTHING to do with consent at all. How can you mix this up?

dingoperson2 · 2015-03-22T15:38:18+00:00

okay, here's my braindump on reasons.

For someone performing a sexual act, there's a big range of feelings they can have about it - from "really really want to", to "really really don't want to". (And whilst the lower end of that gets rapey quickly, that's not necessarily so, e.g. someone who has sex because they think it will get them money or favours.)

Now, the implication and concept of an "out of the blue BJ" will be, to very many people, probably even most, that the woman right then and there isn't really at the top end of that scale (it's by definition out of the blue, no sexy time), probably more towards the middle, but is still going to basically force herself to give a blowjob. That could even mean overcoming some mild difficulties, like feeling tired.

I haven't read the post, but I'm presuming that the guy didn't try to cash it when her pet just died or she had an abortion or puked due to stomach bugs. In that situation you would/should see everyone call out the guy as a massive asshole.

But if she was just feeling tired? Then he'd probably expect her to motivate herself to do it.

Like, if I gave someone a coupon for "oral at any time", then I'd probably force myself to do that even if I was feeling really tired, since I prepared myself that I'd be doing that when I made the coupon. But if she wanted to cash it after she'd been on a hike for a week without washing, then I'd decline, and would not expect to be called out for that.

The reason you were called a feminist is probably because consent is really a peripheral issue here. You're using a phrasing feminists say very often in an out of place situation. Like someone referring to "taking the red pill" in a geography discussion and being told to go back to TRP.

Why is consent just peripheral? Well, consent for pretty much anything can be withdrawn at any time. If I promised to walk your dog or wash your bathroom, then I can withdraw consent at any time. But if you had actually counted on me forcing myself to do that even if I didn't really want to, then you would still get upset. "I have a right to withdraw consent to wash your bathroom" seems to miss the main issues - of the nature of the promise, of how much the promissor relied on it, and of the implication of wanting to cash it right there and then.

If people were arguing that she didn't have a right to withdraw consent, then they'd be arguing that he should force her into it even if she said no. Even without reading the thread, I don't think anyone argued he should literally rape here. Just that they were pissed off she did withdraw consent. The whole point of a "BJ at any time" coupon, like a "wash your bathroom" coupon, is that you promise to give consent at the time, implicitly unless there's an important reason you can't, a little bit more than "tired from work".

Personally, I don't think coupons like this are great. Maybe she had different expectations of what it meant. But if "BJ at any time" means "BJ when I feel like giving one", then why even do a coupon thing?

theonlynick · 2015-03-22T01:09:47+00:00

In that instance I'm on your side.

On the topic of "sexual coupons", well, I find them to be rather tacky. You're basically treating intimate encounters like a financial transaction. Instead of having a normal sex life where "out of the blue oral sex" is genuine you now have to ask/pay for one.

It's a controlling tactic where you placate the other person by "promising" them intimate encounters in the future. It's a rather poor way to work on a "dead bedroom".

Title	Consent is a female issue ?
Author	blueXcat
Upvotes	7
Comments	55
Date	March 21, 2015 9:39 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/2zueg1/consent_is_a_female_issue/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/consent-is-a-female-issue.985195 https://theredarchive.com/post/985195

Comments