Dear MRA

lazlounderhill · 2013-10-02T19:18:09+00:00

"hit of credibility"? "recently"?

There has been a concerted effort to villainize and mischaracterize this movement from its inception. Provide for me another subbreddit entitled "Against(Insert Activist Group here)." Does that seem like a normal or reasonable response to any group that concerns itself, exclusively, with issues that have a direct influence on the very laws and daily lives that the individuals of this group are subjected to? This is not controversial stuff we're discussing here, not by any reasonable definition of the word "controversy". I have yet to read an MRA post that calls for systematic elimination of the female gender from the face of the earth, I cannot say the same for some of the radical feminists' post I've encountered.

xXCptCoolXx · 2013-10-02T18:19:27+00:00

I think it depends what your definition of "a hit of credibility" is. Those who seek to discredit us will always question the credibility of our movement and of men's issues in general. If these people are willing to deny the very issues we face (which are easily demonstrable and quite apparent) then there's not much we can do as a movement to gain "credibility" with these groups if they continue to undermine what we are fighting for. People will blame us for any perceived "problem" that our movement has regardless of whether it does or does not exist.

Basically, how is a movement trying to promote the rights of men going to portray themselves as credible to groups that outright deny men face problems or can be anything but privileged? These are not the people we should be focusing our advocacy to. Let the issues speak for themselves and many without an agenda will easily see the injustice.

baskandpurr · 2013-10-02T22:08:38+00:00

I think it shows sign of gaining more credibility than ever. There's a curious thing were some people will now admit to agreeing with the MRM, but try to disassociate from MRA's. I guess that's a conformance thing, not wanting to take a side until their peer groups decides that side is acceptable. I suspect what you're noticing is that feminists are more nervous and trying harder to undermine the MRM.

blueoak9 · 2013-10-02T19:43:02+00:00

"Constantly blaming women for our problems as men, and constantly just being so hateful."

The MRM blames tradtional gender roles for men's problems. Women didn't create those gender roles.

But where they benefit from them and then go on to deny that they do - which is traditionalist - we're going to criticize them. It's that simple.

2013-10-02T22:30:45+00:00

Be the change you want to see in the world.

2013-10-02T22:21:31+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2013-10-02T22:59:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2013-10-03T02:52:55+00:00

Constantly blaming women for our problems as men

I don't see this much. I see us outraged by systems in place that cater to women such as family courts. I see us complaining about double standards and hypocrisy in places like Facebook. But rarely do I see us saying that our problems are caused by women... rather we complain when they are receiving an upper hand instead of equality.

2013-10-02T17:45:56+00:00

I realize feminism is represented by mostly women, but shouldn't we be attacking the ideology and not the women's believe in it themselves?

Well said. I've mentioned Zimbardo's Lucifer Effect on here before, and I think its a play whenever people turn thoughtful critiques of feminism(s) and turn it into a single minded enmity towards feminist. I think the biggest problem men face comes from them being dehumanized, and I just can't see any "progress" that relies on dehumanization as disireable.

Even if all the negativity can serve a purpose, then what? When will enough be enough? Where's the off switch? Even if it leads to "victory" for MRAs, what would victory look like? Revolutions fail because the wheel of fortune always leads those on top to being crushed, only to rise again and crush another. I think what's needed isn't revolutionary zeal, but rebellion. By that, I mean rebelling against all the negative trends that are used as examples of what works, even though that's what got us into this mess in the first place.

I don't think movements or activist are the answer, but people learning to care about men, and men learning to care about themselves. That doesn't take big battles or ahivements, just personal growth, and it doesn't have to be lead or centralized. It might be hypocritical of me to quote a revolutionary, but "ideas are also weapons," and with forums like this men can be helped by a free market of positive ideas.

As you said, this place can make your blood boil, so I think Im going to more or less call it quits from reddit for now and just enjoy my day off, but it is nice to see some critical views being expressed on multiple post like this. Hopefully some really healthy discussion takes place, but Im in a pessimistic mood after visiting here so much the last few days and I have some predictions. There will be more accusations of brigading and propagandizing, there will be witch hunts for provocatuers and we will probably here terms like "concern troll", or just "troll", way to much. There will be those saying that there is no negativity, or none worth noting. Others will say such negativity is a positive, or even a requirement. There will be no thought given to whether these kinds of statements contradict, as they will often be given by the same people.

Maybe a men's issues or gender issues sub needs to be found of formed, something a little less political and a little less predictable.

Ma99ie · 2013-10-03T00:19:14+00:00

Dear zerowithanH:

go. away. concern troll.

2013-10-03T01:18:20+00:00

Thanks for the concern.

PS

Get stuffed.

fukuaneveryoneuknow · 2013-10-03T00:40:53+00:00

Good god, go fall of a cliff you fucking concern troll.

You people just won't stop until the MRM is totally impotent will you?

Whether you like it or not feminism is the enemy of the MRM, do you seriously believe that any of us like this?

That we like dealing with people so hateful and intellectually dishonest?

Do you seriously believe anyone wants to deal with this?

PIBagent · 2013-10-03T17:48:15+00:00

Another one to be added:

http://breakingtheglasses.blogspot.ca/2013/01/for-record.html#.Uk2s3dWLVcB

zyk0s · 2013-10-02T20:45:53+00:00

I just feel as though everything I have read recently has lacked anything positive. I am completely in line with responding to hypocrisy and educating people on our movement, but of late I felt that it has become more aggressive and less constructive.

Hence why I made this post. Should we not be focusing our anger into more constructive education programs than sitting "complaining" ( I use that in quotations as I cannot think of a better word at this moment). Should we not be focusing on campaigns of education in this subreddit to help sway opinion of us?

Again just a thought and my own opinion.

rightsbot · 2013-10-02T17:18:17+00:00

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YetAnotherCommenter · 2013-10-03T03:29:12+00:00

Constantly blaming women for our problems as men...

Really? I haven't seen too much of this.

What I have seen is the blaming of the gender system for our problems as men, and pointing out how some women (and the official feminist movement) have been trying to further entrench the gender system's restraints on men.

To use the language of feminism, some women (and the "official" feminists) are part of the patriarchy. They do NOT oppose the gender system in its entirety - they are upholding the parts of it which they like/can exploit/etc.

It is THESE people whom we are criticizing. We aren't "blaming women." We're blaming the gender system and we're criticizing those people who are propagating it.

Title	Dear MRA
Author	ZerowithanH
Upvotes	11
Comments	67
Date	October 2, 2013 5:17 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1nletn/dear_mra/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/dear-mra.1162315 https://theredarchive.com/post/1162315

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