Do you feel Words and Definitions matter?

Fearless-File-3625 · 2022-05-01T15:03:01+00:00

Feminists will use a word to shit on men and when called out on their shitty behaviour, they will use the dictionary definition of that word as the defence.

Textbook case of motte bailey fallacy.

Punder_man · 2022-05-01T13:30:54+00:00

Definitions DO matter..
except to feminists where the only definition that matters is the one they choose to use..

Toxic Masculinity as an example..
They will spout on and on about it being an 'academic' term.. but what they fail to understand is that they assume that everyone who hears someone say "Toxic Masculinity" is aware of the academic definition of the term.

But most people who are not will instead parse the phrase as: "Toxic - an adjective used to describe something being harmful or dangerous and "Masculinity" - Pertaining to or belonging to men such as traits.

and will arrive to the conclusion of: "Toxic Masculinity" = Men / anything manly / related to men is toxic.
And of course the feminists will simply pronounce that the men are being 'obtuse' or deliberately ignorant of the 'True' definition.
But if they fail to outline what they mean when they use 'toxic masculinity' then they have failed when it comes to communication.

It also does not help that many feminists have incorrectly used Toxic Masculinity, incorrectly / inappropriately to the point that when feminists use it the default is to assume that it is being used incorrectly and thus being used as a way to attack men / shut men down / out of a discussion / conversation.

As has been pointed out to feminists MANY times, they could get the EXACT point / message across by using 'Toxic Gender Roles' instead of using Toxic Masculinity. But they refuse because they don't want to give up the stick they use to beat men with.

The other irony here is how feminists have (successfully) fought to have job titles replaced to be more 'gender neutral' such as:
- Chairman = Chairperson or just Chair
- Fireman = Firefighter
- Policeman = Police Officer

This was done because of their belief that the original job titles implied that only men could do those jobs.. And to be honest I don't really have a problem with making the titles more neutral.. but this does introduce yet another (of many) double standards within feminism.

And that is, they only care about gendered language when it affects or even potentially affects women.
But they don't have any issue using gendered terms like:

- Toxic MASCULINITY
- MANspreading
- MANsplaining
- MANterrupting
- and of course, #KillAllMEN

For a movement which from the outside seems to care about definitions / language they sure do seem to pick and choose which definitions / gendered language they care about now don't they?

TL;DR: Definitions matter and feminists will gas light anyone who dares to point out the inconsistencies with the definitions they are using.

Thank you for coming to another one of my TEDx talks...

maxlvb · 2022-05-01T12:44:29+00:00

there was a post on r/AskFeminists regarding the use of the word "toxic masculinity" and I don't want to get into a discussion about that as the post is there and people can discuss it there.

Ummm no we cant. Why cant we? Because if we're not banned already, we soon will be for attempting to discuss it there...

As for discussing the subject, have you asked any feminist here and IRL if they think words and definitions matter.

You can ask them to define feminism for you... 🤣

And why calling women females is just so wrong, but there's nothing wrong with calling men males.

Or that misogyny is real, but misandry isn't.

Or that rape culture is something women face every day, but women cant possibly rape men.

That women have rights, but men dont.

I could go on for hours typing how feminism believe words and definitions have power, but ONLY when they apply to and are used by feminists and women...

The biggest example of sexism in the world today is the ridiculous belief that only one sex has ever been the victim of it.

Carl Augustsson - NCFM

SvenVanguard3 · 2022-05-01T12:18:35+00:00

Most people are idiots and just use 'toxic masculinity' when a man does something bad and 'toxic femininity' when a woman does something bad.

It's just a way of attributing blame to a gender instead of an individual and feminists and mens rights activists always want to feel they are on the 'right side' of the gender war that no sane person believes is happening. So they use these terms poorly to try and blame a group for individual actions.

It's been a staple in the feminist community for decades and quite common in the manosphere. Like this

bitter_tastes2526 · 2022-05-01T14:18:37+00:00

My hot take: If there is an ernest aim for discussion and debate then finding at first common ground on definitions/context is important. Are we discussing the masculine in a philosophical way, or in a purely biological model? Or do we want to only talk about it in the coloquial casual sense? I think it could make a big difference in how you formulate your argument and evidence. I also think that such debates are easier held in person (or in video conference), than in text from the phone. But tbh I find that I can generally only have these kind of hot-topic chats with my academic peers and friends, not so much with other members of the public.

63daddy · 2022-05-01T16:47:37+00:00

Definitions matter. They give common understanding which makes language useful. Importantly, definitions are typically written to reflect real world use of the term in question. Someone can offer a definition which doesn’t reflect real world use of a term.

Context and implication matter just as much as any written definition. Feminists love to use misleading definitions to justify what they say and do. The fact is they use the term toxic masculinity to portray males negatively. No matter what definition they claim, that’s their intent.

Feminists often define feminism as wanting gender equality, but this definition doesn’t accurately define feminist action. The actions of feminists clearly show that feminism is about advantaging one sex over the other, not about equality.

I guess what I’m saying is that writing or citing a definition that is inconsistent with real world usage is really a misleading, inaccurate definition. Writing a definition that feminism is about gender equality, doesn’t make it so. The same is true of toxic masculinity. The true definition is in it’s use, not in purposely misleading definitions.

tenchineuro · 2022-05-01T22:05:37+00:00

if so should we not use the definitions used in the dictionary?

Just no. That's the trick feminists use to define the feminist movement as the opposite of the way it actually is. It's pointless and misleading.

We talk about the things feminists actually say and do, not the word 'feminism'.

We talk about men's issues, not some other word.

TrilIias · 2022-05-02T00:47:37+00:00

I commented on what someone else said about toxic masculinity earlier. They said:

Basically women saying “if you’re under 6’ then we ain’t talking” is the toxic masculinity. It’s a little difficult to get your head around if it’s coming from a woman but women, too, can contribute to patriarchal structures.

My response:

Anti-feminists and MRAs often think that feminists use terms like "toxic masculinity" and "patriarchy" to blame all men, but that isn't the case. Feminists don't want to blame all men, what they want to do is blame only men. They want to absolve women of any responsibility.

Feminists would struggle to sell the idea that women's behavior is men's behavior, in this case that men are the ones who reject men for being short (which to be clear, I don't consider an injustice). Feminists don't even really want to say that women behave a certain way because of men, because that phrasing still puts some blame on women. By using terms like "toxic masculinity" and "patriarchy," words that specifically name men, the language clearly blames men, even for things done by women.

It isn't an accident that, as you say, it's not easy to think of "toxic masculinity" as being perpetuated by women. Our general perception of "toxic masculinity" is supposed to be that men are to blame, and we are only told that women can perpetrate it when necessary to protect the term "toxic masculinity." Everything is done to enforce male guilt.

TextDependent6779 · 2022-05-01T17:46:16+00:00

depends.

sometimes you're just arguing semantics, and sometimes there's legitimate reason to specify words and definitions.

Reddit1984Censorship · 2022-05-02T11:09:06+00:00

Exactly, thats why feminists should stop using the term toxic masculinity and use instead something like ''toxic social standars for men''.
Feminist need to understand that they dont own language.

Title	Do you feel Words and Definitions matter?
Author	Menzies56
Upvotes	1
Comments	17
Date	May 1, 2022 11:31 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/ufxyzk/do_you_feel_words_and_definitions_matter/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/do-you-feel-words-and-definitions-matter.1113634 https://theredarchive.com/post/1113634

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