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Does anyone else think Meninism/meninist sounds absolutely stupid?

boneyarsebogman · 2015-08-13T15:19:33+00:00

This is something I've been hearing on and off for a while.. Meninist/Meninism. To me it just sounds stupid. If it wants to coincide itself with...

boneyarsebogman

August 13, 2015

29 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	Does anyone else think Meninism/meninist sounds absolutely stupid?
Author	boneyarsebogman
Upvotes	29
Comments	55
Date	August 13, 2015 3:19 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3guwqm/does_anyone_else_think_meninismmeninist_sounds/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/does-anyone-else-think-meninismmeninist-sounds.973391 https://theredarchive.com/post/973391

Comments

[–]Sigofbath 36 points37 points38 points 10 years ago (44 children) | Copy Link

[+]boneyarsebogman 10 years ago* [recovered] (34 children) | Copy Link

It's a joke that has started to be taken seriously and gaining some traction, sadly.

[–]SporkTornado 14 points15 points16 points 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sigofbath 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago* (31 children) | Copy Link

[–]wisty 2 points3 points4 points 10 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sigofbath 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

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[–]wisty1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sigofbath1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]wisty1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sigofbath1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]wisty1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sigofbath1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There is a general lack of knowledge of the topics or meaning of the buzzwords we discuss here .

I checked out "askfeminists". It's got more ex cathedra reasoning than most religious subs. I'm not saying the posters there are complete morons, but they have very little basis to most of what they say.

but how many mra's can hold their own and win in an open debate there with a knowledgeable feminist, when we as a group steadfastly refuse to lean about things like "rape culture" so we can properly debunk it ...

I've been watching for years , when mra's were more frequently in askfeminsts, it was wave after wave of "why don't we hold women responsible for their rapes" questions , because to mra's this was an important thing to debate. It was just pathetic .

This sub is an echo chamber too .

There is a knee jerk dismissal of everything feminist, no consideration of what they have right , what they wrong ...

We also claim there is no such thing as rape culture, and then point out all the ways their theory says rape culture effects men, while having no idea they are included in their theory, which we dismiss entirely out of hand .

[–]wisty1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sigofbath1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Now, what are the components of "rape culture"? The short answer is, "whatever the feminists speaking thinks is bad, and is somehow related to rape".

Nah, its quite coherent . Its totally incoherant to mra's because mra's refuse to find out what it means, and work off information from casual feminists who don't really know what it is either.

Then if an mra here tries to set the record straight and help other mra's know what it means... they will be attacked and so on, by people who have absurd beliefs along the lines that it means people are high fiving stranger rapists. We'd rather be perpetually confused about what it is, than find out what it is .

What mra's tend to belive its saying, is more absurd than what its actually saying .

A conservative could argue that a culture that allows women engage in casual sex, drink with a chaperone, and live in a mixed dorm is "rape culture". They wouldn't be totally wrong, either, would they?

IDK why you are even asking this ...this is the sort of thing that happens when mras refuse to find out what it means ... most of the counter arguments end up being irrelevant .

To make relevant counter arguments to it, you have to know what it is first, but this goes against the grain here .

[–]wisty1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sigofbath1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]wisty1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sigofbath1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]wisty1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But the peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error.

(snip - a huge slab about truths that were surpressed)

However unwillingly a person who has a strong opinion may admit the possibility that his opinion may be false, he ought to be moved by the consideration that however true it may be, if it is not fully, frequently, and fearlessly discussed, it will be held as a dead dogma, not a living truth.

There is a class of persons (happily not quite so numerous as formerly) who think it enough if a person assents undoubtingly to what they think true, though he has no knowledge whatever of the grounds of the opinion, and could not make a tenable defence of it against the most superficial objections. Such persons, if they can once get their creed taught from authority, naturally think that no good, and some harm, comes of its being allowed to be questioned. Where their influence prevails, they make it nearly impossible for the received opinion to be rejected wisely and considerately, though it may still be rejected rashly and ignorantly; for to shut out discussion entirely is seldom possible, and when it once gets in, beliefs not grounded on conviction are apt to give way before the slightest semblance of an argument. Waving, however, this possibility—assuming that the true opinion abides in the mind, but abides as a prejudice, a belief independent of, and proof against, argument—this is not the way in which truth ought to be held by a rational being. This is not knowing the truth. Truth, thus held, is but one superstition the more, accidentally clinging to the words which enunciate a truth.

(OK, that's enough?)

[–]Sigofbath1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]wisty1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sigofbath1 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You haven't proven that it's a substantial contribution.

Ah, a goal move and a goal set .

This is what I'm talking about about .

And I would suggest that prioritizing "rape myths" over every other factor has the effect of silencing opinions.

We are the ones trying to silence people about the existence of these myths contributing and attacking me when I describe the content of the theory to help mras make more intelligent arguments about it . And dismissing things out of hand .

That means discussing prevention is more difficult

There is a positive correlation between their activism and rates going down.

Its more difficult for people to discuss the old style of prevention - nonsense like saying its their clothes .

and so feminism may be a bigger part of "rape culture" than rape myths.

Feminism by its own definitions promotes rape culture in certain ways .

But you have to be informed to know exactly how do skewer them with it .

But because of the anti intellectualism here, the movement will never figure it out .

We'll never get beyond thinking its all about bickering about rape prevention tips .

[–]Sigofbath0 points 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]hork231 point 10 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Part 2

They mention a women, Charlotte whom has been affectionately nicknamed 'Big Red'. "Charlotte was pissed off and feisty because she was consistently interrupted as she tried to explain how feminists hate the patriarchy, not men themselves." They gave a link to the video where this occurs. Let's just take a minute to watch the video and see how diplomatic she is........ ah refreshing. "Her message wasn't anti-men, it was anti-gender stereotypes and anti-oppression."

Hmm, at 1:30 she accuses them of hating women; at 1:55 she says it's bullshit that they can be an MRA and not hate women; at 4:10 the man says if there's commonalities between the MRM (men's rights movement) and feminism then wouldn't it be more productive to work together(aka give and take, cooperation); she replies that she's trying to accomplish this by reading the list and MRA's are too busy hating women (how about listen to other the side to understand them); she continues her list and blaming patriarchy for each issue (what is patriarchy? and who supposedly benefits from it?); she isn't focused on for the rest of the video.

But here's a damning piece of evidence that she does not care about MRA's or any of the issues they talk about. At 0:30, look who is it, it's Charlotte herself and what happens moments later? The fire alarm is pulled, the MRA meeting is interrupted and she is seen cheering this on. Hmm, I wonder if some of the negativity surrounding her is justified as she applauds the violation of the right to free speech.

"After the video received around 300,000 views in one week, thousands of MRAs joined forces to harass and cyber-stalk Charlotte" "...true MRA intimidation tactics familiar to any woman who speaks out against misogyny."

Citation needed but I think this is enough to demonstrate Jezebel's bias against MRA's and their tactics against telling the truth about their ideological enemy.

The Salon article continues by pointing out some tweets that call feminists responsible or advocate for #killallmen. A link is given to a blog that claims "“Kill all men” is a shorthand war cry, much the same as “ACAB” or “tremble hetero swine” or “die cis scum”" and "It represents a structural critique, presented in a provocative fashion." I don't know about you but critique consists of breaking down each point and finding flaws, #killallmen is not that. Somehow it's a warcry comparable to another 'Group A should die' catch phrase. Yeah, the Westboro Baptist Church was hilarious when they said fags should die and it was only protesting against oppression. what's the fucking problem? Why do so many unjustly hate that church?

"Patriarchy harms men, it’s true, but it oppresses the fuck out of women, and there are few, if any men who are not complicit in this oppression."

So according to this blog, the patriarchy oppresses women, men also participate in the oppression through patriarchy. So either men obey the patriarchy or they are the patriarchy but since the patriarchy oppresses women (so women wouldn't be part of it) that only leaves one option, men=patriarchy. What did Big Red say earlier about patriarchy? She hates the patriarchy not men? Back to that video, at 5:10 she continues her list. Prison rape and rape jokes are part of rape culture which is part of patriarchy. False rape accusations are part of rape culture and thus patriarchy. The idea that some people are more valuable due to certain body types is patriarchy. Need I say more? Yes, I will say more.

Back to the blog, "Most men are not rapists or abusers, but many are complicit in perpetuating this violence by spreading rape apologist myths", hmm sounds just like Big Red patriarchy list. It mentions the S.C.U.M. Manifesto (Society for Cutting Up Men, more jokes I presume but who devotes all their time for a book just for a single joke?) and in it "there’s a very astute analysis of how patriarchy and capitalism interact to produce a system which oppresses women. There’s also some very clever satire of the thinking of the time, flipped and reversed on its head to present a biological argument as to why men are inferior."

So why am I mentioning these parts? Dehumanization and a threat narrative, men are dangerous they hate and hurt women through patriarchy!

"On the other hand, it’s pretty difficult to mention SCUM (or indeed just cry “kill all men”) without the misogynists crawling in, crying misandry."

Again with the jokes and now, those who take umbrage to it, misogynists. See how it goes? Belittle the opposition to hateful ideas by saying they can't take a joke and label them harmful (aka intimidation tactics). I'll stop here but hopefully you can now understand why people are upset because this shit doesn't occur in a vacuum and it comes from bigotry.

[–]apullin 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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