Problem solved!! | MensRights

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I am thinking you are having a hard time understanding me. It's almost as if your anger on this issue is inhibiting your ability to understand, and I say this with all due respect. Let me try to explain again.

It doesn't matter how much time, effort, money, and other resources a society throws at teaching people not to break into homes. Therefore, while I do advocate for trying to prevent this type of crime, it is also important for people to protect themselves against people who are gonna break in a steal. We could spend a billion dollars a month preventing this and it would still be stupid not protect yourself from thieves. You bring up female dv against males. Just like the stealing example, I agree we should expend effort at knowledge of the public, shelters (of which we have very little but that is a different issue), and the like. However, that being said, men need to protect themselves from it. Videotaping situations, leaving that person, and whatever other thing that can be done.

With this issue it is the same. Society has done a good job at teaching our sons to behave. Despite being the most scared, women are now the safest group of people. It is more dangerous to be a man or a child out at night and get physically attacked (which includes sexual attacks because that is physical) than it is for a woman. All this being said, women need to protect themselves and take reasonable steps to do so.

I have a son and 2 daughters. I am gonna teach my son to be good. I am also gonna teach my daughters to be good (given that women are perpetrators of violence a lot more than society gives them credit for, I am gonna hit this hard). I am also gonna teach my son to protect himself against unscrupulous women out there because I think that while society does a great job warning women of the dangers of men, they do a horrible job warning men of the dangers of women. Further, I am not gonna get caught up in feminist b.s. and say oh you daughters don't need to protect yourselves because men should behave. No, I am gonna teach them to protect themselves. If you take the politics off of this o think you will agree this is sound. But feminist b.s. can cloud someone's judgment the same way any other political b.s. can cloud people's judgment.

[–]ee4m 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Im not having a hard time understanding you, you don't know what the sign is saying.

No one is saying rape can stopped completely by simply saying don't rape - they are saying attitudes towards it can be changed.

You have a very simple and literal understanding of a message more complex than you realize.

Muslim people can tend to believe women out at night and not worthy of respect and are fair game.

People can be taught not to think "well she was out at night, therefore she brought it on herself".

And if you did your due diligence, you would find that these signs aren't making the claim that all rape will stop, if people stop blaming women for being out at night, or wearing x.

So stop wasting time arguing about something you don't know the point of.

Anyhow you are still wrong, to follow your logic all moral guidelines are pointless.

Dont steal has been taught for 1000s of years. Kindergarten children have to be taught not to take other people's stuff.

The people that break into houses tend to come from sub cultures where stealing is seen as ok and in which that steal tend to think certain people are asking for it, therefore it's their own fault.

Alternatively, other people - say the middle class do not believe that if they crawled in through a window left open, that it's really the fault of the home owner.

[–]SoraIsRoxas 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

You seem to be implying that anyone who disagrees with the premise that the way for girls to safely go out at night is for boys to behave, which is fallacious. There are two main issues with your argument. Firstly that boys are responsible for girls being raped, whereas in reality rapisists are responsible, some of which a boys. A subset of boys may be rapisits but this neither makes all boys rapists nor all rapisits boys. Futhermore the premise on which your argument hangs: idea that teaching the entire set of boys to behave will result in all boys bahaving and therefore eliminate the existance of rapists relys on the erroneous belief that, a rapist, once being taught to behave will forevermore behave accordingly and that by teaching all boys to behave any rapist that is not a boy will also simultaneously stop raping as a result of boys being taught to behave.

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I agree that it teaches them the "no respect so i can do what i like to them", but i dont think they could believe that doing so is consent. They know it is rape, and just asking a person who has been socialized into believing such thing is ok, wont do much, but telling women to stay in is also bad, so both options here arent as productive as one might think. its really a tough issue to face when its culturally accepted by some, and us being of a different culture and telling them that their culture is flawed, is also a big no no. IMO, self defense such as pepper spray is a start, im not saying that its a womans fault if she gets raped, but it cant hurt to mace the motherfucker when they try it, and after being maced or tazed a few times, i think negative reinforcement would gradually change that rape culture (i use the term as that is definitely one, but ill refuse to use it to define north.america, as i know people call north america's a rape culture when it isnt, and it kind of waters down the meaning pf the term). I dont think that self defense will end the issue, but again, its a start. And who knows, maybe kicking a rapists ass will be empowering.

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Great, some people have, but most people were speaking about how silly the "Dont teach women how to not get raped, teach boys not to rape" campaign is, as many interpreted the picture as that rather than what it actually is. I respect that you were trying to point out the flaw in what they are saying, at first i was just trying to make their intentions clear.

And no, my argument is that nobody will listen, YET. as for the time being, they dont care and therefore will not listen. any small form of empowerment or anything positive for women on a smaller scale is a great start, and it will help get people to listen. While i do not know this form of first empowerment, it shouldnt discredit my argument that unless shown on a smaller scale that woman are equal, fewer people would listen.

And if this really is an irritating waste of time, use your time wisely, you dont have to put words in my mouth like you have previously tried, and you dont have to reply 3 seconds after each comment at any time of day (seriously, how do you get the replys so fast?).

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Huh, so you are just in it for the last word, either that or youre just an idiot. If you dont like the convo, dont reply, its really that simple. Until that time or if i am proven wrong, i will reply. Im allowed to defend my argument. Ive not tied you up into anything, you dont have to reply. But you do, either you are an idiot or you just want the last word in an argument.

And no, that is something different entirely. Prison rape is a bad thing, i dont think people who commit crimes are asking to be raped. AND I DONT THINK WOMEN WHO GO OUT ARE ASKING TO BE RAPED. how many times do i have to say it? Stop putting words in my mouth, ive only said that their solution will be ineffective. Please read my argument before assuming i think women who go out are asking to be raped. Seriously, i have never said that. In this whole discussion, all you have managed to do is accuse me of saying that. Ive said the opposite multiple times. And saying "that will be ineffective", is different from "her fault for going out". Seriously, you keep claiming this discussion is too valuable for your time, when all you do is waste my time by accusing me of saying those things. If you dont want a discussion, dont reply. If you do, thats cool, but dont blame me for wasting your time when its you wasting your own time, im gonna defend my point, so either stop bitching or stop replying.

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Again "wasting your time", you dont have to reply. You are guilty of wasting your own time here. im not talking as if im an expert, im talking as someone with reason. Its without reason to think changing an entire culture, the personality of millions, is not difficult. History proves that attempts to change a culture are always in vain when attacked directly. So while i dont know much about their culture, i know people dont change easy. If its in their views to change their beliefs and personality to change on the whim of either a minority or that of somebody who is not part of their culture, then ok. Is that the case? In the chance that it is not their culture (which is likely, no culture has such views, actually most have a negative attitude towards such a view.). So while i dont know them, i know they are human. If another culture told you to stop eating meat because it is immoral, would you? If so thats cool, however vegans and animal rights activists have been trying to get this view to stick for years, and for the majority of the population, it hasnt worked. This is why i say, most people are unwilling to listen, and most of those who listen are unwilling to change.

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Great, people dont listen when their culture is being criticized, even by an inside source. do you think every german agreed with the nazis? No, many didnt. But they never had a chance at changing the culture. How many people have "disproved Christianity" or such things, have Christians ever listened? No. My point being, its very unlikely that they would.listen. that isnt nonesense, history proves that. And because you keep complaining about "this nonesense", dont reply if you dont like it. If you keep replying it doesnt do good for your point of this being a waste of your time, and it does support my theory that you only want the last word if you really dont want to have this conversation. Either stop complaining and give proof that they would have to listen, give proof how firstly empowering women in a smaller way would not help, or dont reply. Thats what it comes down to.

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[+]EnderFuckingWiggin 10 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I don't think they are supporting the idea of telling women not to go out at night, few people do. I think that they are saying it's not wrong to advise people on how to avoid danger. Though not going out is extreme, there are preventative measures one can take to avoid dangers such as rape.

[–]ee4m -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	Problem solved!!
Author	Kiwifruitee
Upvotes	17
Comments	144
Date	January 10, 2016 11:40 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/40dxhp/problem_solved/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/problem-solved.963438 https://theredarchive.com/post/963438

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