Quick question I would really love some help with.

Larry-Man · 2013-05-31T04:56:35+00:00

Just because it happens with less frequency does not mean it it is not a concern. That's a silly way to deal with something. I think it depends on if you agree that both things are a problem. One of the things that I found most difficult to come to terms with (as a feminist, I'm browsing here and not a subscriber so feel free to disregard this post) was how horrifying it is when any injustice is swept under the rug. I have no idea how to suggest responding to people other than saying something along the lines of "Just because it happens with less frequency does not make it less wrong." Until you start fighting against (logical - much emphasis on this word) steps toward equality on the female side of things then your fight is a good one.

jolly_mcfats · 2013-05-31T05:24:16+00:00

common knowledge that women were SEVERELY more opressed

common knowledge has nothing to do with objective fact. it is frequently wrong.

The only way to resolve issues like this is with hard data and discussions of what constitutes a problem. If the data disproves "common knowledge" I'd say that that in itself is a justification for activism

here are some starting points for their topics

dv: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/5/prweb10741752.htm

rape: http://www.genderratic.com/p/2943/mary-koss-the-corruption-continues-manboobz-style/

regarding politicians, you might point out that there are more women voters, and that these elected officials institute policy like the elimination of due process for male college students and the elimination of free speech on campus. That might be a good time to also make them aware of the boy's crisis in education, and possibly how the AAUW still works to minimize this

videoninja · 2013-05-31T05:25:59+00:00

I agree with Larry-Man. I'm not really a subscriber to here either but I do frequent this subreddit because there is content here worth noting. It is incredibly important to note that injustice is injustice. I honestly don't think it's necessarily fair to do a comparison game between the two movements because marginalization is not a zero-sum game. There's plenty to go around. The difference to note, however, is that society does treat women and men in very different ways that are not necessarily fair.

To help better frame your argument, however, I think it is important to point out that you're not saying men have it worse overall but that it is not fair to marginalize problems men face to the point of ignoring them in favor of issues women face. Also it might be important to note that what both parties here are saying are not mutually exclusive. Much like racism is addressed as an umbrella term and subheadings, you can also address sexism the same way. There's bound to be some overlap but it's always important to note that it is not necessarily the same issues for either side. Playing oppression olympics and stratifying marginalization will only lead to more frustration. It's shouldn't be a case of who has it worse but rather what can you do to address it or even just a discussion of what's happening and why.

Going off the racism analogy, Asian-Americans face far more positive discrimination than black people. Therefore it creates an entirely different set of problems that need to be addressed. Asian-Americans also make up about 6% of the US population last I checked but that does not necessarily make our problems not worth addressing.

AceyJuan · 2013-05-31T05:52:44+00:00

So they don't care about injustice against men because there's more injustice against women? I hope their hearts don't split open with all that compassion.

rightsbot · 2013-05-31T04:52:17+00:00

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NeuroticIntrovert · 2013-05-31T06:16:08+00:00

These are your parents. An argument framed personally, rather than politically, might be more effective. However, if their responses are unsympathetic... well, it might be emotionally difficult for you.

If I were raped, by a man or a woman, would you tell me concern for men's rights was useless?
If I were falsely accused of rape, would you tell me concern for men's rights was useless?
If I committed suicide, which men are doing 4 times more often than women, would you tell me concern for men's rights was useless?
If I took every precaution, used condoms, made sure she was on the pill, and even still, I got a girl pregnant - and she wanted to force child support out of me, while family courts kept me from being allowed to see my child - would you tell me concern for men's rights was useless?
If my wife beat me, and I went looking for a domestic violence shelter, and was turned away, would you tell me concern for men's rights was useless?

mikesteane · 2013-05-31T07:30:11+00:00

They are your parents. Unless they are exceptional, they will always think they know better than you, so you might find it more effective to direct your energy elsewhere.

Deansdale · 2013-05-31T08:00:51+00:00

The best "counterargument" is to not talk about MR with people who are not interested in it. You can't change people's views if they aren't open to it, better not to force these subjects because it can only lead to frustration. Don't shoot yourself in the foot, let it go.

literallyschmiteraly · 2013-05-31T10:35:04+00:00

Common knowledge is a hard one to go up against. People just hate to have common knowledge challenged.

Almost everybody runs into a turning point with their parents, where they realise they are going to have to take a different path, if they want to honor their own authenticity. It's totally okay for you and your parents to have different beliefs, and for you to think that theirs are wrong and kind of stupid. That's normal.

Title	Quick question I would really love some help with.
Author	ProfessorBlazian
Upvotes	0
Comments	22
Date	May 31, 2013 4:50 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1fdxt0/quick_question_i_would_really_love_some_help_with/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/quick-question-i-would-really-love-some-help-with.1172454 https://theredarchive.com/post/1172454

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