~ archived since 2018 ~

So apparently there's something wrong with me for caring about circumcision.

AlexReynard

December 16, 2017

29 upvotes

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Post Information

Title	So apparently there's something wrong with me for caring about circumcision.
Author	AlexReynard
Upvotes	29
Comments	47
Date	December 16, 2017 1:21 AM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/7k453w/so_apparently_theres_something_wrong_with_me_for/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/so-apparently-theres-something-wrong-with-me-for.909299 https://theredarchive.com/post/909299

Comments

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points16 points 8 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Late_For_Username -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]MenDeserveRights 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]zulu127 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard[S] 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rodrigogirao 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bhavv 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]mgm-survivor 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGlassStone 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]rodrigogirao 19 points20 points21 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]clockworkgirl21 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard[S] 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

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[–]AlexReynard[S] 7 points8 points9 points 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I don’t feel traumatized or lacking. But I can’t speak for anyone else who is.

It's hard to get people to understand that, nothing seems wrong because you have no basis for comparison. There's literally no way for you or me to know what natural sex feels like. It seems weird to me that guys wouldn't be irked by that.

We can agree that babies can’t decide, but why should the mother?

Ha ha, because women get 100% of rights to decide whether the kid lives or dies, so why not!? /s/

I’ve encountered who are against it are female, and I honestly don’t think it should be up to them at all.

I really don't know. I've talked to clueless women who think it "looks better". I've talked to women who are utterly horrified by it. I'd say that doctors should decide, but the American Academy Of Pediatrics is just fine with it.

Christ, I am still really bitter about those comments. I don't mind being ignored, but to be made fun of for caring about kids... Serious rage here.

[–]SoulofEquality 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

It's hard to get people to understand that, nothing seems wrong because you have no basis for comparison. There's literally no way for you or me to know what natural sex feels like. It seems weird to me that guys wouldn't be irked by that.

The way my fwb has explained it to me is that since he's already very sensitive and has no problem reaching orgasm or getting hard, there's "obviously" nothing wrong with losing some skin. He said he also knew a few guys in high school sports who would complain about needing to wash their foreskins after practice and they were somewhat jealous of the cut guys who could just rinse off with a few swipes. Because of this, he says he's happy his parents made the decision to get him circumcised when he was a baby and couldn't remember the pain of it like he could if he got it done as a teen or adult.

I've pointed out that if he grew up with a foreskin, then that's what his body would be used to sensitivity-wise, and that the dudes in the locker room may have just been voicing their frustration at being different in a way that would get them sympathy instead of shame. He still doesn't see any issue with it, which I think is weird. I know that if I found out the hood of my clit had been removed without my approval I'd be fucking pissed and be doing skin stretching exercises to try and get back to normal.

I just think it's as bad to cut boys as it is to cut girls. If they decide to get a circumcision or a labiaplasty (or whatever else people do nowadays) as an older teen or adult, then that's fine. It's their body to change as they want. But forcefully and painfully removing a child's physical autonomy is just too disturbing.

[–]AlexReynard[S] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I know that if I found out the hood of my clit had been removed without my approval I'd be fucking pissed and be doing skin stretching exercises to try and get back to normal.

Ah, but here's a terrifying thought: you probably wouldn't. Much as the attitude of cut-guys-in-denial frustrates me, I can't help but understand it. To accept that this was wrong, you have to accept that your family knowingly subjected you to ritual child abuse. Your family. It's easier for me, as I had an abusive childhood and a thought like that doesn't bother me. But you'd have to believe that your parents went along with a massive conspiracy that includes all the doctors in North America. For some people, that's too impossible to grasp. If everyone else says it's okay, it must be. Normal = good. It reminds me of people leaving orthodox religions, and being disowned by their entire community for it. For some, there's too much emotional anchoring to bear that.

I guess it's unlikely I'll ever change anyone's mind in the moment. But what I hope is that I can introduce a nagging, ugly little idea into their heads that will burrow in and not let go. The kind of idea it might take a year or so to realize, "Holy shit, that's TRUE."

[–]MenDeserveRights 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SoulofEquality 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ah, but here's a terrifying thought: you probably wouldn't. Much as the attitude of cut-guys-in-denial frustrates me, I can't help but understand it. To accept that this was wrong, you have to accept that your family knowingly subjected you to ritual child abuse. Your family.

I agree, for those with otherwise normal childhoods with loving, caring parents who in every other aspect of your life want you to be healthy and successful...well. It must cause at least some cognitive dissonance. But I think one could take a look at the ritual of circumcision, how prolific it is here in the States, how rare it is to ever meet someone intact, how there's so much disinformation regarding the "dirtiness" of having a foreskin (which is fucking stupid, because little girls have to learn to clean the daily smegma from around our labia... there is absolutely no reason a little boy can't be taught to also, it's not rocket science) etc and understand that just because it's popular doesn't make it right. Your parents aren't Hitler Incarnate for getting you circumcised, they are sheep being lead around, nodding in agreement with the faulty ideas or religious superstitions we still have in society.

It's easier for me, as I had an abusive childhood and a thought like that doesn't bother me.

Same here. I had massive self-esteem issues even after leaving home at 17 due to religious/extreme tradcon brainwashing telling me my "role" as a ~~female person who loves their personal freedom~~ human who's "duty" is to be a wife and babymaker, not to mention the years of gaslighting and abuse by my stepfather ramping up these ideas. Thinking your parents or elders necessarily want what's best for you is an interesting idea, but not something either of us have experience with, it seems.

But you'd have to believe that your parents went along with a massive conspiracy that includes all the doctors in North America.

Even if I had a good childhood, I'd most likely still believe this. I'm into researching conspiracy theories, and unfortunately far too many are now unclassified and shown to be true. I'm not talking Roswell shit, I mean the actual experiments the US government ran on prisoners, the insane, parts of the black community, soldiers... it's fucking scary, knowing what was gotten away with. There's a reason I'm very much in favor of our right to bear arms, even though (or because?) I love my country.

If everyone else says it's okay, it must be. Normal = good.

This is the type of thinking that makes good people commit/allow bad acts. It creates a flawed moral compass based on what is common vs what is right. Popularity over empathy... never a good thing. It's why we have so much backlash as MRAs, people don't see anything wrong with gynocentrism so obviously something must be wrong with us.

It reminds me of people leaving orthodox religions, and being disowned by their entire community for it. For some, there's too much emotional anchoring to bear that.

I agree. I was a Roman Catholic, and now am an atheist. There's people I grew up with who truly believe I'm going to roast in hell for my "hatred" of god. Thankfully I don't care anymore...but that took a while as well. It does indeed sound the same with coming to terms with circumcision. You have to be willing to give a real, hard look at exactly what the point of the procedure is, why various doctors and the media and some religious leaders are so heavily invested in it. Who profits? Why do they profit? At what cost to you as an autonomous individual? What other prices have you passively paid without being told or really thinking about it? Or worse, people have forced you to? All questions one needs to consider nowadays, because in the fight for men's rights you can't afford to be blindfolded anymore.

I guess it's unlikely I'll ever change anyone's mind in the moment. But what I hope is that I can introduce a nagging, ugly little idea into their heads that will burrow in and not let go. The kind of idea it might take a year or so to realize, "Holy shit, that's TRUE."

As stomach churning as they are, videos and pictures of circumcisions will probably help in that. It is keep squirreled away under the guise of a quick, clean, relatively painless procedure taken care of in a sterile hospital room. Most parents will never hear the cries of their son as his sexual organs are sliced into, and will only have to be slightly careful when cleaning his penis in the following days. I'm convinced that the reason similar types of female circumcision is hated and despised as much as it is, is because it's typically done to adolescent girls who are able to tell of the pain and betrayal of having their most sensitive parts cut away. Obviously there are also worse forms done to some girls, where the entire outer clitoris and labia are removed so she cannot experience any sexual pleasure...but these are not as common as people in the West are lead to believe. Regardless, any kind of genital mutilation should be seen for the cruelty it is, no matter who it victimizes.

[–]TheGlassStone 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheGlassStone 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AlexReynard[S] 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TheGlassStone 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]iainmf 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jmg836 points 8 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]MenDeserveRights 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link