TLDR: Subtle (if possible), reliable ways, particularly for a man to establish sexual boundaries on the first encounter, first, second or third date with a woman? Particularly, before they've already had sex.

This is something that I've been thinking about for a while, so I was wondering if anyone, male or female, RP or BP (Purple Pill you don't count, just pick a side already) had any good advice that could help me and possibly others.

I know it bothers other men a great deal, as well. It's one of those grey areas where if you push a girl too far on a first date or first night hook up, you come off as at worst a rapist, but if you don't push hard enough you come off as passive or sexually un-interested. This is especially prevalent with today's culture surrounding rape and hook ups, where I feel like it's on the back of everyones mind.

Flat out asking a girl, does she want to have sex, can be the best approach, at certain times, but sex is usually a little more fluid and non-verbal. That could be one way to suck the life out an encounter. Particularly, before you've ever even hooked up. Unless, that is your advice. Because, maybe that is just best way to approach it.

I'll give you one example to help clarify where I'm coming from. On Saturday, I was out at a bar for a friends birthday. Ended up chatting it up with a very pretty, intelligent, outgoing girl... Turns out, it was her birthday, as well. Perhaps, she was looking for some companionship. At the end of the night, I said "take my number." She said "that's it, we've been talking all night and you're just going to give me your number." I said "well, we're not going to have sex tonight and once we start making out, I'm going to want to even more". Wasn't being rude, I could just tell, it wasn't happening. She said "there are other things we can do." In that situation it worked. We established a boundary, for better or worse. I showed enough interest and put the ball in her court, at least for the night. But we had an awesome rapport where that direct of a question worked. I can clarify or give any other examples if this is a confusing or useless post.

EDIT: My story was bad. I was just trying to give an example to make this post more personal. It was fresh in my mind, because it happened over the past weekend.

Let me make a flow chart:

  1. Men want to have sex with women.
  2. Under no circumstances, do men want to push a woman too far. This takes precedent over number 1. If she feels uncomfortable in any way, it's not worth it.
  3. Women expect men to take control and lead sexual advances, particularly on the first night.
  4. But, go back to 2.

The guessing game isn't always the most enjoyable experience for men. In a round about way I was asking if anyone some pseudo-psychological test or maybe a from a woman's perspective a guy said something that made his intentions very clear, and allowed the woman to make her boundaries very clear, and they both had a mutual sexual experience.

Let me give you an example for you to pick apart tell me how stupid it is.

You're sitting at a bar, talking a girl you just met that night. She is interested in you. During conversation you say to her "here's a fun scenario for you... Brad Pitt walks in to a bar, sits next to you and you guys start talking. You have a great conversation going, and he leans in, looks in to your eyes and says look (Jennifer), you are extremely beautiful, smart and funny, I'm only in town for the night, I hate to be so forward, but I'd love to sleep with you." And then you ask her what her reply would be.

If she says, "hell yeah, I'll drop my panties right at the bar" that might tell you something about her. Or, she might say "even if it's Brad Pitt, under no circumstances would I ever have a one night stand." That might tell you another thing about her.

This scenario could be subtle, it could be fun. It could reveal something. It could reveal nothing. It could allow you through Brad Pitt's word say her she is very pretty, smart and funny without it making it sound like you are giving her a compliment.