for a guy with no game how much would improving appearance help?

Humble_harpdarp · 2014-02-11T10:35:33+00:00

Fuck! Just wrote a HUUUGE ass response cause I'm on adderall, but reddit ate my comment, so ill just paraphrase.

Yes, looks matter, and improving your looks has a huge effect. If you look bad, people will shit test you more and you have to constantly maintain, guys will be more likely to question your dominance or whatever. Girls will approach you, I even get some approaches on a good day and I'm a 5 or 6at best, probably a 4, even. Also if you're looking good, you get less shit tests, less maintaining, people just assume you're alpha and treat you as such, just don't break the image and you're golden. Also, looking good is a huge confidence boost, and body language is 60% or more for your game, and when you're confident you look more attractive by improving your body language and mannerisms to match. You shouldn't seek external validation, and you definitely don't need it at all, but I'd be lying if I said I don't take getting blatantly checked out all day to be a huge confidence boost. Looking good makes it easier, if you don't have looks its gonna be a lot harder, and competition will be a bit steeper, and in some settings you just won't be able to succeed without good looks or low standards.

JohnEngland · 2014-02-11T13:16:41+00:00

Improving your appearance is a massive help.

If you get ripped and dress well women will hit on you.

Part of your appearance is your body language, make sure you project alpha body language at all times.

Most people have already decided how to judge you before you speak to them just based on your appearance.

da-way · 2014-02-11T09:08:19+00:00

Almost nothing. That being said, being nicely dressed and groomed will change peoples reactions to you and start that nice postitive feedback loop (same reason they say, "dress for the job you want not the one you have").

Dressing nice is no substitute for game but it will help. There are no shortcuts in life.

puaSenator · 2014-02-11T10:48:31+00:00

Yes, absolutely. Now, it's not necessarilly required, but to be a fat slob banging 9s, you have to be a master at game. If you were to put a scale on it, going for level 30 to 60 in game is generally easy, however going from 80-90 takes tons and tons of work. It just makes much more sense at just getting good at game, not an expert, and instead focus a fraction of that effort on your looks.

And good fashion and fitness is more than just a psychological confidence boost. Your looks are the first thing that people notice about you, and it's the first thing they are going to be able to make any judgement on you. If you are dressed like you know what you're doing, and in good shape, it signals to other people that you care about yourself, and are likely to have other positive attributes.

As a whole, it just makes game so much easier. When I'm looking like a slob, I can notice the differences right away. Women will mercilessly shit test while others will literally want nothing to do with me. However, when I'm actually trying to look like more than a slob, it just gets sooooo much easier. It's not just confidence, it's objectively because of my looks.

Also, why the fuck do you have absolutely no game? Getting that early game is so retardedly simply. The learning curve is so steep it's ridiculous. Literally, dudes do one day bootcamps that change like night and day when they are done. Get out there and get the basics done.

Jessie_James · 2014-02-11T10:33:08+00:00

Well it might not directly help with the ladies much but being in shape and dressing well will give you a slight confidence boost.

So dont do it just for the ladies, do it for yourself aswell.

StasisNation · 2014-02-11T14:10:27+00:00

Well, it helped Zyzz. I'll pretend it's a fair conclusion that you don't need one for the other.

It'll help your game if, you know, women are actually interested in talking to you in the first place. Being hot helps.

[deleted] · 2014-02-11T15:18:37+00:00

If you don't have game the only thing improved by appearance is your chances with the girl that is just going around asking if you want some.

In other words chances will no longer be one in a billion, they'll be closer to one in a million.

halfevilnick · 2014-02-11T08:57:37+00:00

Not at all. Unless you look like Brad Pitt women aren't going to be approaching you and even then not "quality" women. If you don't approach you're not getting pussy. Simple as that.

I'm a good looking guy and I'd say getting a good haircut, shaving and trimming and dressing well helps my game a lot but, only if I approach.

Despite what you hear though, inner game/frame is king. You can, be scruffy and unkempt but, projecting as alpha consciously or unconsciously will attract the right sort of attention.

sadshark · 2014-02-11T13:21:51+00:00

Looks only help if you already have/learn game.

I'm a really skinny, decent looking guy, that pulls more girls than any of my buff and more good looking friends. Actually, most of them pull nothing and only 'parasite' off my pulls when I pull 2 or 3 girls and only want 1.

I realize that gaining some muscle will help my game TREMENDOUSLY, but only because I'm already having success.

In your case, you're already probably in good shape since you hit the gym daily. Realize that you will NEVER be in the 'best shape' (as you put it), it's a constant improvement. If you don't start approaching NOW, and don't improve your game NOW, when will you? When you're in your 'best shape'? That will never happen, you will always want more and more and right now I think that this is just an excuse for not approaching and putting yourself out there in the risk of rejection and stepping out of your comfort zone.

This is thrown out there far too many times, but game is more important than looks, as long as you're in shape, not hideous, well dressed and clean.

or were you better off spending it on developing your mind?

And how do you propose you will develop your mind? Reading books, materials and forum posts? Nope, by getting out there and getting THE REFERENCES, as many as you possibly can, from good to bad and only focusing on the good while fixing the bad. Approach, get rejected, learn from it, move on and do it again and again.

[deleted] · 2014-02-11T10:54:26+00:00

Increases in fitness is not simply "looks". I am thinking of it more like curing a chronic disease. A flu is a disease, but a flu does not merely clog up my nose and makes my lungs ache. It also bombs by whole mood and energy levels to shit, because the body is one unit. Same kind of thing.

80/20, the most important 80% of Game is simply just not being desperate, having a "I don't care if I succeed or not, I don't care if she leaves me or not, she is not better than me and I don't need her any more than she needs me" attitude and with that naturally comes a playful, teasing, ribbing attitude, because at the end of the day, rightly done, romance is fun, not emotional drama. Why wouldn't you want this?

NakedAndBehindYou · 2014-02-11T12:12:54+00:00

Looks will get you a girl's attention and interest from across the room. But if you open your mouth and start spewing beta shit and she realizes you have no self confidence or that you have put her on a pedestal, you're not going to get laid any time soon.

lord_of_vader · 2014-02-11T13:10:56+00:00

I have a firm belief that your internal state will reflect symbiotically on your external state.

I've had the best luck lately by improving my mind and body simultaneously. That means reading, studying, meditating, working out, and being active every single day. It doesn't matter if you do one fucking push up, you have to start now.

Appearance and looks will work for approaching women, but you win the battle with your personality and mental strategy. You need both to be successful. Even without the "game", both states are crucial.

redpillbanana · 2014-02-11T13:15:30+00:00

Yes, it made a huge impact.

The things under your control are:

how you dress and groom
your physical fitness
your posture, gracefulness, and manner of speaking

Not under your control:

Physical attributes - height, face, etc
The innate sound of your voice

Luckily, the things under your control can make a large difference, just like putting on makeup can radically alter the beauty of a woman.

How you dress and groom: I remember reading "Dress for Success" by John Malloy. The cool part of this book is that he would run experiments to see what kind of dress people liked for men in different parts of the country. There was no doubt that ones dress sense hugely impacts how one is treated.

One key takeaway I had from this book - shoes are shockingly important, both for women and men! Also, bowties suck.

Try dressing to the 9s one day and see how differently people treat you - for me, it is like night and day.

Physical fitness: also very important. Once I got fit, I noticed a large change in women's behavior towards me. My favorite was when a woman squeezed my bicep and started giggling. Men changed their behavior as well - I definitely felt like my status was elevated in their eyes. You should be able to run this experiment too, since you're going to the gym.

Posture/gracefulness/manner of speaking: This one is the hardest but maybe the most impactful. Having that physical and verbal "presence" will completely change how you are perceived. This is one area I continually work to improve. Playing a sport helps because you learn to control your body more efficiently, and a lot of grace comes from efficiency. Posture comes from your state of mind, but can also influence it. Manner of speaking - going to Toastmasters or imitating the great speakers will help. I've noticed that if you speak with an authoritative tone, people will believe whatever bullshit that you say.

_Fony_ · 2014-02-11T13:59:18+00:00

it will open for you, but you'll be friend zoned with any woman above an absolute bottom feeder(which do not require good looks or game to lay) unless you have some game.

randomdude600 · 2014-02-11T14:29:06+00:00

Looks are key but without game all the looks in the world will only score you the occasional pity lay where a chick just jumps your bones.

It's like sales, you can give the best presentation in the world but if you can't close the sale you've got nothing, your plate is empty and your kids go hungry. Remember your abc's Always Be Closing

dirtboxchampion · 2014-02-11T15:50:24+00:00

for a guy with no game how much would improving appearance help?

I had no game at one point. I'm also attractive, and was at the time.

When I had no game: women approached me because I was attractive. However they were low quality women. I was lazy and took what came my way.
When I had game: I approached women, and got a better quality of woman than I would have if I'd waited for them to approach me.

dominotw · 2014-02-11T16:16:37+00:00

It also improves you intelligence if nothing else, which is always a plus.

Amuro_Rey · 2014-02-11T16:24:24+00:00

I was a fat fuck, then became an average fuck. At the time I had no game; I got more approach invitations, but because I had no game I'd fumble it all. If you want the benefit of improving your appearance now I say get your clothes in order. I do daygame. Most guys are walking around in hoodies or jeans and t-shirts. Me and my crew who dress 'nice' with button up shirts and 'dressy' shoes soak up the approach invitations and sometimes blow dudes clean out of set. It's absurd.

selfsufficientnigga · 2014-02-11T17:06:26+00:00

Others have addressed the positive feedback loop that will come from increased attractiveness.

I'd like to add that appearance alone will help you, but only in form of improving your chances at initial attraction. It won't help that much in terms of 'sealing the deal'.

kick6 · 2014-02-11T17:15:09+00:00

Getting fit will make a difference to your whole life, yes. The act of accomplishing fitness will give you a measure of confidence that is attractive.

HOWEVER (and this is the part everyone hates to hear) unless you manage to get a top 1% physique...girls aren't going to turn the tables, and start hitting on you. Even if you DO manage to achieve a 1% physique, you're still not going to have 9s and 10s chasing you.

So yes, get fit. But realize that it's not some magical shortcut to poosy paradise. You're still going to have to improve other aspects of yourself.

bleh321 · 2014-02-12T05:25:32+00:00

I always say.... work on yourself first - inner game priority and then work on gaming girls/techniques after

Examples of inner: - Attitude - " you are the prize" / Confidence - Aesthetics / Gym - Mission / Goals - Career / Money

Personally for me, when my career kicked off and I moved out of home, my confidence levels shot up exponentially which in turn affected my attitude towards women.

i0unothing · 2014-02-12T06:17:57+00:00

Good appearance is basically collective and personal perspective.

Personal perspective is crucial. I put it down to self-respect. How you see yourself? (To get others to respect you as an Alpha, you need to start by respecting yourself, your body, your diet, your passions/goals in life etc..). You create confidence and an aura of happiness and success.

You will noticed the collective (the people around you) will change their behaviour when you start to respect yourself. Your confidence, happiness and independence will be projected to other people. This also reinforces your own personal perspective.

I believe you should train all yours muscles, brain included.

You work out your biceps, your core, your legs, and all of your other body parts - so why wouldn't you want to develop your mind?

Also with the point you made about having zero game: Social skills are simply SKILLS. You get better with practise. So go out on the town, be different from the rest of the crowd and rock the socks off that pretty lady you have your eyes on.

Be the strongest version of yourself - physically and mentally.

FortunateBum · 2014-02-12T19:14:18+00:00

Don't think aesthetics. Think status. Expensive. Well made. Bling. Get it?

mercuryg · 2014-02-11T13:45:30+00:00

yes, getting fit is one of the best decisions i ever made

Kwizkey · 2014-02-11T22:45:35+00:00

Just go to the fucking gym. Without that I would not have the confidence I do now. As you build up your physical armour you feel invulnerable to the opinions of others and your self-esteem will soar. You game will take a turn for the better although indirectly. Just by dressing well, having a smart haircut, having a shave and building some muscle will transform both your own and others opinion of you.

ashman89 · 2014-02-11T10:06:55+00:00

To be honest get into the habit of good personal hygiene. Shaving your balls, shaving your armpits, exfoliate your skin, use moisturiser. Then get a haircut using a style that suits you best, followed by dressing nice simply to make you feel good about yourself. Trust me if you have muscle mass in addition to style along with a clean face and a manly glance as you walk down the street with your shoulders rolled back chest out.

Also walk as if you give no fucks at what they think about you aiming to cause cracks and explosions I guarantee you at the least you will notice women eyeing you up and down and maybe give you a smirk.

[deleted] · 2014-02-11T16:30:57+00:00

For a fish with no fins would I swim better with fins?

Title	for a guy with no game how much would improving appearance help?
Author	eeeaddict
Upvotes	10
Comments	41
Date	February 11, 2014 8:48 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1xllmh/for_a_guy_with_no_game_how_much_would_improving/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/for-a-guy-with-no-game-how-much-would-improving.11191 https://theredarchive.com/post/11191

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