Is The Red Pill compatible with Liberalism?

nonservator · 2013-07-06T15:41:45+00:00

Classical liberalism? Sure.

redpillschool · 2013-07-06T15:01:02+00:00

The red pill as the truth it stands for has no necessity or designation for compatibility. The question is, does liberalism have any room for truth?

On on side, liberalism isn't a belief system per se, but instead a manifesto of actions intended to be taken based on a common belief system.

It's pretty commonly accepted that people tend to become more "conservative" with age/maturity.

I'd argue anybody who is liberal likely believes they are right because they have observed the world. Nobody holds a belief system they believe to be wrong, that's the point of a belief system.

So, yes, I think open-minded liberals may find truth here and come to terms with it. I also think that the process of swallowing the pill has a way of making people more conservative, or at least shed childish ideals from any political platform.

The question is misleading. It's not is the red pill compatible with the liberalism, the question is: is any ideology compatible with the red pill if the red pill purports to be evidence based truth? or more aptly are liberals more likely to be open minded enough to accept the red pill?

2013-07-06T15:29:47+00:00

The whole 'liberal' thing implies a very odd, false and uniquely American political dichotomy.

dropit_sphere · 2013-07-06T22:57:24+00:00

Talking about "Liberalism" and setting it in opposition to "Conservatism" unnecessarily narrows the scope.

For any who thought it was just about sex, Mencius Moldbug is worth reading. He takes the position that what we really need is a king.

Spend enough time here and you may come to the conclusion that women can't be trusted to order their own society. Spend some time there and you may come to the conclusion that men can't either.

The U.S. focus on presidential elections, when it is really on the local level that people can actually wield some power, reveals where our hearts are: for better or for worse, most people want to be governed, rather than govern themselves.

soapjackal · 2013-07-06T20:21:07+00:00

I'm classically liberal about most things and y opinion as far as politics and TRP should b concerned are as follows

You are responsible for yourself and your environment. This does not mean you shouldn't help others, only that at the end of the day excuses will not change your situation
Data, evidence, logic,history, pragamatism, and truth should all be of prime focii in political debates. If you don't have data or evidence you probably shouldn't have an opinion unless your reasoning is solid.
You shouldn't be a dick. You may disagree with someone, but if you maintain frame, consider multiple perspectives (no matter how vile), and stick to logical principles.

2013-07-06T21:10:56+00:00

In any case, TRP doesn't even have the option of being liberal.

This is utter horse shit.

I am a registered independent. I tend to go quite liberal on social issues, and very conservative fiscally.

I am Red Pill because it WORKS. Because it is largely CORRECT. I find a small bit of the overt misogyny occasionally displayed here a bit much, but data is data and results are results. There is absolutely no political ideology that trumps fact. Trial-and-error is my friend. Becoming Red Pill has validated my previous beliefs in dealing with relationships, revealed things that I or others I know have done incorrectly in the past, and brought my already-tight game to a new level(though I'm certain I still have much to learn.)

You are confusing generally liberal beliefs with the inablility to learn, the inability to make rational decisions based on fact, full-on PC behaviour and a complete lack of balls and common sense. It's a silly and dangerous presumption.

anra · 2013-07-07T23:31:23+00:00

TRP, as it exists in this subreddit, is not compatible w/ either party in the united states' two-party system. this is largely b/c the two parties are not consistent, and TRP is.

the left embraces evolution as fact, but would prefer to cooperate instead of compete. the right publicly shuns evolution, but practices social darwinism anyway.

the model TRP man does not fit either of these, b/c he embraces the truth: that he is an animal that thrives by seeking greatness. he also understands that women are attracted to great men that appear to have better things to do than to bed them, and feels no remorse in using this knowledge of female preferences to his advantage.

yankeetiger · 2013-07-06T16:03:25+00:00

What I see as being wrong with liberalism is that it purposely punishes the people who add most value to society- working males- therefore taking away the incentive to succeed

zionController · 2013-07-07T03:46:24+00:00

Reddit is the liberal circlejerk of the internet... even when you can gather enough people who disagree on one issue like feminism, most people are still going to dawn their fedoras and be euphoric with their anti-religion, pro-abortion, anti-republican attitudes, failing to see the bigger picture altogether.

POOR_IMPULSE_CONTR0L · 2013-07-06T15:03:10+00:00

I hate how people lump a ton of things into "Liberalism".

If you look at it logically, feminism is technically anti liberal because its not about egalitarianism or making women equal. It's about making women superior.

Furthermore, that's again assuming that diversity and egalitarianism are a liberal thing, which they aren't. I have the unique opportunity to have grown up in and around San Francisco, but I've also spent a lot of time in Texas, Utah, and Colorado. Both democrats and republicans are pretty much equally egalitarian. Neither is racist though there are racist subsets of both. For example, many of the black people in San Jose and Oakland used to say and do very racist things to me, and some texans legitimately do not like Hispanics. But they're all the minority.

The most intolerant people are always extremists. Whether they're hardcore evangelicals or hardcore feminists, its their extremism that makes them discriminating, hood wearing assholes, not their political leaning.

2013-07-06T17:37:20+00:00

mrust · 2013-07-06T20:33:48+00:00

I am interested in this topic, but I think it would help if you defined what you mean by liberalism. It's such a large topic; any specific aspect you think it incompatible with Red Pill thinking?

Quoting from wikipedia on the commonalities among different types of liberalism:

John Gray identified the common strands in liberal thought as being individualist, egalitarian, meliorist, and universalist. The individualist element avers the ethical primacy of the human being against the pressures of social collectivism, the egalitarian element assigns the same moral worth and status to all individuals, the meliorist element asserts that successive generations can improve their sociopolitical arrangements, and the universalist element affirms the moral unity of the human species and marginalizes local cultural differences.

Certainly Individualists should have no problem with Red Pill thinking. I also don't think anyone should have problems with the Meliorist element - though Red Pill focuses on individuals - why wait for the next generation to improve ourselves?

The other two I disagree with, but I don't see them as necessarily conflicting with Red Pill thinking. I think there is a huge distinction to be made between moral worth and sexual value. TRP does not concern itself with discussing moral worth. Even if we take it as a given that men and women have the same moral worth (feel free to agree/disagree), it still does not take away or counter anything else we have to say. I just think it's irrelevant. It's tempting to think that Red Pill has given us so many answers, it must be the answer to everything or that it's the search for truth, but I think there are topics on which it simply has nothing to add.

You can argue that I am trying to compartmentalize, but actually I am just avoiding spending energy on unnecessary and unproductive conflict. However, it is nice if my life philosophy lacks contradiction, otherwise I know I have some deep thinking to do so comments are welcome.

C_A_Jones · 2013-07-06T20:53:55+00:00

My biggest problem with the mainstream political parties in the US is that it almost always uses an "us vs them" discourse. And so many people are invested in one ideology or the other that they rarely take the time to consider the other's point of view. Both liberals and conservatives will happily abandon their core tenants if it means they can knock a blow to the other. Quite frankly it makes me sick.

xhapfighter · 2013-07-07T03:29:24+00:00

There is no set accepted definition of liberal or conservative. There was one study- I can't seem to find it, which attempted to calculate the IQ of liberal vs. conservatives and had to define the concept. It boiled down to: liberals= care more about people you don't know; conservatives= care more about people you know. In that sense, yes it is.

However, in the USA we like to divide liberal=democrat conservative = republican. Both are ideologies. Both are horse shit. The Red Pill (to me) is about empowering men in relationships. Both 'conservative" men and "liberal" men have there balls in a vice grip, so it's incompatible with both... if your trying to get them to fit inside the dogma ozzing from both sides. I'm liberal in the sense I like gay rights, think we should have a basic support system for disadvantaged people (welfare like) and should protect the environment with sensible laws.

You can identify as a liberal red pill man (like me) but very few people will consider you liberal. Or they may just say your a crabby asshole.

FucknaughtTheElder · 2013-07-07T17:19:56+00:00

Since you seem to have an undisclosed, broad definition of 'liberalism' derived from conservative thought manufacturing, let me turn the table for moment and broadly define 'conservative.'

Conservatives essentially believe that people naturally seek to exploit one another, and it's folly to try and subvert or regulate this natural process.

OK. So the women TRP complains about are naturally exploiting. And taking TRP means refusing/avoiding this exploitation.

So. I think you're trying to say that since the core of TRP is exploitation, as is the core of conservatism, it seems TRP is something only a conservative could understand or practice.

So what is Progressivism (Liberalism is a 60's guns-and-butter-on-credit thing, recycled as ReaganBush NeoLiberalism)?

Progressivism recognizes exploitation, too. Of natural resources, labor, and especially exploitation by people and institutions who hold too much power, and need to be regulated to keep their natural, exploitative activities from becoming detrimental to people's General Welfare and right to work to improve their lives.

TRP is about recognizing that "conservative," exploitive women must be regulated or boycotted, from the Progressive perspective.

Now, in simplistic terms one could argue that non-conservative politicians use Women's Rights as a wedge issue to get female voter turnout. But that's just part of the game. It doesn't mean we Lefties aren't utterly dissatisfied with our useless, feminist wives.

A final point. TRP is a fairly Libertarian viewpoint, IMO. I want to remind everyone that there are as many left-leaning Libertarians as there are righties. And if the righties would quit thinking they're the only ones, and join up with us lefties, we'd have a chance at cracking the two-party corporate stranglehold.

And I'm out....

edit: grammar

2013-07-08T18:30:40+00:00

I'm not really sure man... Anarchist-socialist and I find I agree with some parts of the pill despite being as far from conservative as possible.

TheNextStepinLogic · 2013-07-08T23:10:44+00:00

You got to legalize it!

noblepaladin · 2013-07-06T17:21:16+00:00

I think the moment you assign yourself to something like "Liberalism" you are suffering for cognitive dissonance. Most political stances are riddled with contradictions. Given the hundreds of controversial political issues, how can you possibly agree with the "Liberal" stance on all of them? It's like flipping a coin and landing heads every time.

Also, something like Liberalism is an ideal, not reality. Wouldn't it be nice if people treated each other equally? But that is not reality. Just ask any black guy. The funny thing is, the people who keeps insisting that the there is no racism tend to be the most racist people I know. Humans are susceptible to cognitive bias and the only way to minimize it is to constantly check and ask if you are biased right now.

Basically, if you are a black guy, you don't walk through a Neo-Nazi KKK rally because "they should treat me equally". So why the fuck would follow all the other ideas that are preached by society when it is obvious that reality is different.

Politikon · 2013-07-06T23:26:54+00:00

I'm a 'liberal' in many ways, but I've also accepted for the most part the theories that are endorsed by the Red Pill. That's because for the most part I am an individual first and can entertain varying theories and beliefs without them becoming my master. Also, my desire for freedom and equality for all, which throws me in the liberal category, does not contradict my current understanding of male/female relations which I developed after reading the Red Pill.

zionController · 2013-07-07T03:39:22+00:00

I don't think anyone understands what you just said. It is all what I basically have come to understand though.

This subreddit basically pokes holes in the feminism part of liberalism, but most fail to realize that feminism is only one small part of the greater ideology of cultural marxism that is eroding society. TRP is anti-liberal, however, not to those who just want to lay&play all day. Hedonism is truly a liberal construct, and some people are here exclusively for that.

GlennBeckAmerica · 2013-07-06T21:04:40+00:00

What does "race realism" have to do with TRP?

realniggasstandup · 2013-07-06T19:39:38+00:00

Tell me which liberal values are the traits of an alpha male?

Title	Is The Red Pill compatible with Liberalism?
Author	JonFrost25
Upvotes	6
Comments	41
Date	July 6, 2013 2:34 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1hqzj4/is_the_red_pill_compatible_with_liberalism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/is-the-red-pill-compatible-with-liberalism.5320 https://theredarchive.com/post/5320

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