Question about the book "Models" by Mark Manson

niczar · 2014-09-05T13:35:57+00:00

Being vulnerable, as he advocates, does not mean just being honest. It certainly does not mean being an open book. It means having the balls to risk being rejected for being yourself.

Women love adventurous AND mysterious men. By that I mean men who have both those qualities at the same time. Putting on an obviously fake display of bullshit confidence is not mysterious, it's transparent what's going on. Especially if you're doing the exact same thing every chump is doing. Taking social risks with confidence is adventurous and mysterious. Where does this guy get the nerve? Is he someone special, famous?

When I'm at the top of my game, women comment thusly: they think I'm in show business, or at the very least I remind them of someone famous (and usually they can't name anyone, to them I just look like someone who could be famous, but not necessarily anyone in particular)

lonGterMgoalS · 2014-09-05T14:05:33+00:00

Be fearless. That's my (extremely) brief summary.

It's pretty much what I've been told my whole life and what I tell my kids. Society says "just be yourself" (shitty and incomplete beta advice) but I was brought up being told "just be yourself and don't give a shit what others think."

[deleted] · 2014-09-05T17:03:32+00:00

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antikonti1 · 2014-09-05T13:18:20+00:00

I'm on page 262 so far and yes i find some things pretty confusing but i think this might be the point - to think. I don't know what are your expectations reading the book but so far i think you should read it as something to "get" the whole picture, not to focus on something. Be honest to yourself, not to the girls. As long as you're honest to yourself you'll be honest to them as well. And by being honest to yourself you're more likely to accomplish something because you're OK with the fact that you might get rejected as well. Because being self aware of that fact you'll either overcome it or go back to that little beta bitch state again. So far i think the whole idea of the book is DO or DO NOT. It's up to you.

GuitarHero07 · 2014-09-05T14:32:15+00:00

If you are truly not needy (i.e. more highly invested in yourself than the girl), push/pull is not dishonest....it's just a fun game that you play that will turn her on. You are fully aware of what you're doing and you're not worried about pushing her away.

If you come from a place of false confidence, you will be highly invested in the outcome and this technique will be much less likely to work because that outcome-dependence will show through. I guess you could fake it if you're a great actor....but instead of faking it why not genuinely be that guy?

One thing I disagree with him about is his dismissal of all PUAs. A lot of them do peddle performance tactics instead of genuine core confidence but many (e.g RSD) do promote genuine personal growth/development. Tyler preaches aligning your thoughts, words and actions....exactly what Mark Manson recommends. Besides, performance tactics are better than nothing if you are only starting to unplug.

smokingmonkey420 · 2014-09-05T16:06:44+00:00

Boundaries and vulnerability. That's what I got from it. It put things together and allowed me to interact with other people more naturally.

I used to be a guy with no boundaries. I had enough game to generate interest and close on occasion, but no sense of boundaries which eventually led to me getting walked all over. Even worse, since I had zero boundaries, I was terribly afraid of getting walked on which led to a lack of vulnerability thus killing my game. It's like once you realize the importance of boundaries, bitches sense this and act accordingly.

alreadyredschool · 2014-09-05T17:32:57+00:00

Basically, we should just always say what is on our mind without caring what the woman will think, right?

Remove the filter between your head and your mouth, thus your conversations will become significantly better.

thredditsowaway · 2014-09-05T13:31:44+00:00

One of my favourite books, almost as influential as Pook on my life. False confidence means acting confident when you're really shaking out of nervousness, or feeding yourself bullshit in order to be confident about something you should probably fix (see: body acceptance movement). Rather than hamster away your imperfections, you need to accept them and become comfortable with them, or fix them. They can't be on your mind when approaching women.

Push-pull is just a tactic. Your motivation for using that tactic can come from a place of false confidence ("I hope she likes me!") or true confidence ("I know she likes me, I'm just going to mess around with her"). Keep in mind this is how "naturals" behave, coming from a beta mindset requires changing how we behave over time... it may be fake at first.

When he says "speak your mind" I think he mostly means stop using pick-up lines or acting like someone you're not. If you're not already a person who is attractive to women, you need to become one, you can "fake it till you make it" but it becomes at lot easier when you've "made it."

Take it with a grain of salt though... Manson's been posted to feminist subreddits (and in a good way). He's got great advice but he's sometimes not harsh enough for TRP-style self improvement.

[deleted] · 2014-09-05T14:12:09+00:00

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etcomro · 2014-09-05T13:33:03+00:00

Reading it again would definitely be worth it. It's some good shit.

Anyway, what he's talking about is removing the bullshit that keeps you from doing what you want to do anyway. Honest communication. It's not false confidence if you've already internally validated yourself. Which is a major topic in the first part of the book. If you approach and you already don't know that you're an awesome dude deserving of anything you want (given that it doesn't hurt others) then you've already lost.

[deleted] · 2014-09-05T15:53:04+00:00

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antikonti1 · 2014-09-05T19:37:17+00:00

I can't help myself but ask something about the book too.

I'm little confused how to interpret needy (a little bit because english is not my native language too). How is it possible to act non-needy and at the same time to flirt with women? Isn't it needy to flirt with them because in fact you want to sleep with them or whatever.

Also i assume non-needy means that you want to sleep with her or whatever and you're doing all this with the clear intention of it but you're non-needy because you don't care if you'll succeed or you'll not.

Which of the statements is true?

harigeorgeson · 2014-09-05T16:38:33+00:00

Like most material here Models takes time to process and you must actually go out and try to apply it to truly make sense of it.

I had the same questions about push pull. This is a quote from the book.

"Another classic situation is flinging harsh teases immediately followed by sincere compliments. For instance, you could make fun of how indecisive she is ordering her drinks and tell her that indecisiveness isn’t going to lead her anywhere in life. When she responds with some indignation, you could then compliment her on how beautiful her eyes are when she’s mad. This absolutely bamboozles women in a very, very good way."

I'd be willing to bet most guys would read that and try to memorize it and use it as a line. That's not what Manson's teaching you here. The above is purely an example of the attitude you should be effortlessly exuding all the time. Those comments should be completely off the cuff, spontaneous, and unrehearsed.

It takes practice to be able to seamlessly navigate back and forth between playfulness and seriousness. It's similar to comedic timing or music. You have to read the situation and respond accordingly. You absolutely cannot do that if you're in your own head or you're invested in what the other person thinks of you. This is what "vulnerability" and non neediness is all about. Hope that helps.

Title	Question about the book "Models" by Mark Manson
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	2
Comments	33
Date	September 5, 2014 1:01 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/2fjomg/question_about_the_book_models_by_mark_manson/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/question-about-the-book-models-by-mark-manson.20562 https://theredarchive.com/post/20562

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