Switching to red pill mentality - negative consequences ?

dropit_sphere · 2013-06-19T16:35:41+00:00

Here's the interesting thing: while it's easier to be actual friends with guys, it's harder to be a leader of them.

Sometimes I'll be talking to a girl---even if I'm not interested in her, in fact, especially if I'm not interested in her---and I'll go full beast-mode game. When you can a) see the matrix, and b) you're not distracted by how much you want her, it's absurdly easy to keep a girl laughing non-stop.

And invariably, when I do this, I'm left feeling kind of bored, disconnected. Because it's all bullshit.

I don't mean game doesn't work---it works fabulously. But it's conning the stupid, like putting "Excellent at leveraging group synergies" on your resume. Presumably this is how a plain girl feels when guys fall all over her after she figures out makeup.

The thing I like about guys is that they see through it. Game doesn't work on them, or at least not nearly as well. Frankly, it's one of the qualities that I find, dare I say it, noble about men. There's some truth in the accusations that game works by "manipulating" women*. Well, no shit, everything in society works by manipulating women. Women are the easiest thing to manipulate in the world. Just ask advertisers, politicians, and Cosmo. Game basically boils down to "All the cool kids think he's cool. Don't you want to be one of the cool kids?" just done professionally. What's admirable about men is that they're willing to say, "Fuck that, I find no value here." Even if they're too beta to be able to compete with you, at least they're not lapping it up like the women.** The most omega of WoW-addict omegas is at least doing something he likes, rather than reading about the lives of movie stars who don't give a shit about him.

What men value is not being treated like shit, being shown respect, people who can and will add value to their lives rather than people who can and might.

The thing is, it's oddly kind of hard to provide value to a dude's life. You have to bring something tangible. Being a good friend will do it, but that's time-intensive. Sharing hard-to-acquire knowledge does it, but as a college student you're probably low on that.

Anyway.

It's kind of unavoidable. I have become more of a lone wolf as I've realized that most dudes don't have a lot to offer me. Some do, though, and I prize those friendships.

If you want to be a real leader of men, then understand that they will be less competent than you; otherwise, they'd lead themselves. This is not nearly as bad as it sounds as long as they're willing to follow. Also understand that with leadership comes responsibility---if you're leading them, you're responsible for them.***

Frankly, at my stage of life, I just don't have time to be a leader of men. I have my own stuff to take care of before I can handle anyone else. So I have gone lone wolf in the way you're describing.

* (The question that never follows, but should: "Should we allow people so vulnerable to manipulation to vote?")

** Not all of the guys engaging with you will be "lapping it up." Guys responding to you will be alpha enough to be unthreatened by you, or way beta and hoping to get validation from you. It's the guys in the middle---beta enough to know they can't compete, not so beta that they'll embarrass themselves supplicating to you---that are looking at their phones.

*** I'm speaking in generalities. If you're "leading" a bunch of guys hitting on girls at a party, and you expect them to do what you say, then it's up to you to deflect a fatty who won't leave your newb friend alone. If you're leading a company, and you want employee loyalty, then you better a) never have layoffs and b) have a retirement plan. Point is, obedience demands security, from men or women.

mescalineeyes · 2013-06-19T16:30:33+00:00

Ironically, I found that mostly males take offense to the knowledge behind your new attitude. I learned quickly to keep my opinions to myself and let my actions speak for themselves.

mistermikeymike · 2013-06-19T15:35:10+00:00

the guys who disengage, you can try involving them. a lot of charming and alpha people do not bring up themselves but instead bring up other people.

girls will also do this a lot.

basically try to involve them in the conversation, ask them what they think and joke around with them

ENTP · 2013-06-20T07:25:23+00:00

oh and about the leader bit. it's about cultivating a sense of greater purpose, people can sense intent through your behavior, and if they think you have purely selfish motives they will not follow you. you must have the greater good of your 'tribe' in mind, or at least seem to, or you will earn no followers. simply listening to a person is a great step to gaining loyalty, above all however must lie your goals. without group goals and success in attaining those goals, you are not a leader.

btw, a group goal can be ridiculously simple. "lets get the dj to play blah blah song" and lead the group over to do it. don't go by yourself obviously... that's beta

and let other dudes talk. have side conversations. center of attention behavior is a lot more beta than you think (entertainer behavior)

NrwhlBcnSmrt-ttck · 2013-06-19T16:19:05+00:00

Hard pill to swallow, have to take it every day for years.

projectself · 2013-06-19T18:22:31+00:00

your status in the pack is changing and others are feeling you out to determine where your boundaries are. your old friends may be alienated, and some friendships will not survive. In some cases you may discover that people you thought were your friends really were not.

As for new people and this reaction, others actions always tell much much more about them than you.

Wiskie · 2013-06-19T19:40:31+00:00

Men tend to bond over activities whereas women tend to bond over conversation. That's part of the reason why, generally speaking, men more often participate in team sports and video games (I'm talking COD, Halo, TF2 etc. and sports games here) and women go on more lunch breaks with their besties.

That women are probably more receptive to conversation (I don't think it would be wrong to say they are the more naturally empathetic--and certainly more emotional--of the two genders, so it makes sense) is why outer game is rather important, and why men are not really keen on listenting to it. Men like action. ;P

favours_of_the_moon · 2013-06-20T04:43:52+00:00

If you act with integrity, generally, you will get the respect you deserve.

At least from men.

ENTP · 2013-06-20T07:17:39+00:00

Misanthropy, over analysis, and the loss of innocence.

dropit_sphere · 2013-07-03T16:21:17+00:00

somedickcream: I thought of you when I read this:

http://sunshinemaryandthedragon.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/creating-a-tribal-culture-an-update-from-joseph-of-jackson/

In particular note JoJ's comment (identified by plugging in "This actually all started" into Ctrl-F).

Best of luck.

new2RP · 2013-06-19T18:03:19+00:00

the "bitch behavior" will eventually decline as people will gravitate you for who you are, not in spite of it. You might be describing people who thought you were one way but then you changed, and lots of people don't like change. That happened to me a long time ago when I stopped giving a fuck what people thought of how I acted or spoke. My soft spoken friends were more distanced, but still remained around the periphery, and I gained a LOT more friends who loved my fun assholish nature.

You WILL become a leader among men if you don't give a shit what people think about you, but also don't actively put them down (there's no reason to seriously insult other people except in occasional jest). I used to be a passive homework nerd who had a group of maybe 3 friends. I now am a strong supervisor in a job where I manage a large team of guys who all highly respect me. I have other employees and friends who idolize me, and LOTS of friends that love to hang out around me. If I hold a party, everyone shows, if I plan a night out, everyone attends.

I am a fun asshole, and people love it. People can let their own assholeish side out and have fun doing it. Women love the confidence, and even the passive guys will start gravitating towards you again since there are boobs around! Don't worry what people think of you, be respectful of others, but don't put up with their bullshit, and never hesitate to bust their balls about it.

chikinpickle · 2013-06-19T20:07:39+00:00

It's just people filtering man. Are you being dominant or domineering? Meaning, it's easy to be dominant and tear down the betas. It's like using a cheat code. But they won't like you, and may actively avoid you. Which is fine, but there are a shit ton of betas out there. So if you want to alienate them then whatever.

I prefer to lift the betas up. They usually end up being dancing monkey anyways because they aren't used to playing on your difficulty setting. So I'll take them and toss them up into my arena and see how they handle it. They like me, the girls still like me because they (beta guys) always overdo it.

Don't let your ego get too involved. If the dudes don't want to be social then fuck them who cares. They would make lousy friends anyways.

If you really want to be a leader the key is to be liked. Basically make sure everyone around you is enjoying themselves. Invite people to fun activities. You can be a leader among friends. Random dudes, they aren't going to go gallivanting off to war with you unless they are beta as fuck or you have mad charisma.

As you become more of an alpha type male you should just stop hanging out with beta guys honestly. They will secretly hate you and you'll think they are all a bunch of spineless pussies.

Be careful with humor. I know a lot of PUAs profess cocky, sarcastic humor but not everyone will respond to that. Sluts, party girls, and destructive people love that kind of humor. Some people get offended by it and think you're an asshole. So calibrate and feel out the sense of humor people have a little more. I'll tailor my jokes to girls personalities most of the time. Naturally I'm a sarcastic "funny asshole", but some people like misdirection humor, some people like wordplay, others like dirty jokes. Calibration is the key.

As for leading? When the group is trying to make a decision. Make it for them. You know, when everyone is standing in a group fidgeting toss out a few ideas, see how people react and pick the most positive one. Key to being a good leader is to calibrate to the group you are leading, and to remove your ego from it. Make a mistake? acknowledge it and correct it immediately. Other guys want to take charge? Sink into the background and let the showcase their incompetence. Usually what happens is they'll get ego invested and want to continue with a bad decision to save face. If they are more competent than you they should be in charge anyways.

If you really want the guys to follow you, you can't just roll in and take charge like you can with girls. Girls expect to be led. Guys, you need to earn your respect and prove your abilities first. Then they will happily follow you because hey, you're highly respected. Unlike girls, who follow anyone who's barking orders. This is most likely where you are getting into trouble. If you bark orders at guys like you would at girls (Which I suspect you are) they will ignore you at worst. If you run into an alpha like that they will AMOG the fuck out of you one way or another. Whether it's the patient killshot, the subtle reframing of you, or just plain out telling you no.

Don't worry about maintaining control of the interaction. You'll get petty. Someone has a good idea you'd be dumb not to listen to it just because it wasn't yours.

Otherwise, when they fuck up, fix their fuckup and regain control.

W-Z-R · 2013-06-19T15:39:29+00:00

The possibility of pushing away a decent girl who has self respect, morals and is smart enough to see past the BS is the real existential problem for me.

Stayinghereforreal · 2013-06-19T17:39:08+00:00

Getting a lot of bitch behaviour directed towards me, from other men.

Little boys throw stones at the birds because the birds can fly and the little boys cannot.

2013-06-20T04:51:09+00:00

Fuck you, don't tell me what to read, you lone wolf. I only listen to leaders of men

legendofpasta · 2013-06-19T16:57:47+00:00

Negative: I've been called borderline insubordinate at work by some big wigs.

Positive: I've been offered a promotion and a 20% raise

Positives outweigh the negatives in any red pill context

jack500 · 2013-06-19T19:58:21+00:00

I find myself interacting with a group (party / club / college), there is always a couple of guys that "disengage" - they go quiet, look at their phones and stop participating. The rest are social and respond in a positive way (both guys and girls). The more of a dominant atitude I have, the more I get the stink eye from other guys.

Expected when you are in competition with other men for female attention. But your social status among the boys will influence your social status among the girls (only influence, obviously, not decide.) Guys aren't generally going to react to a cocky asshole in a positive way unless you're already friends.

The worst effect of red pill seems to be getting bitter because women are not the way you thought they were, but that's beta as fuck. Man up and give the ladies what they want.

rkg-pua · 2013-06-19T19:43:56+00:00

Just because you've switched to a red pill mindset doesn't make you all of a sudden 'alpha'. The guys you hang out with probably think you're a try-hard turd now. A genuine alpha would not face what you described. Both women AND men are drawn to the genuine alpha.

Title	Switching to red pill mentality - negative consequences ?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	5
Comments	33
Date	June 19, 2013 2:10 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/TheRedPill
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/1gnm0l/switching_to_red_pill_mentality_negative/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/TheRedPill/switching-to-red-pill-mentality-negative.4968 https://theredarchive.com/post/4968

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