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[–]RPDBF31 points 12 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
Patriarchy keeps women from majoring in those subjects. I remember fondly in school whenever a girl was good in math the teacher striking her and saying girls can't do math go to the home-ec classroom! /s
[–]NaiveGoat17 points 12 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link
I am an Iranian female. Here 70% of science and engineering students are female. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_Iran
The number of women in science and tech is definitely a cultural issue. My two sisters studied physics and mechanical engineering and they told me about their experience in Iran and in America as STEM students. They said that in the US people are really baffled when you are a female (especially a good looking female) with a mechanical engineering or physics PhD, but they said that in Iran they never ever encountered this attitude.
Its not like western women are prevented from studying these things. But when there is a culture of women mostly studying x and y this is what most women will do.
EDIT: the point is that most people follow cultural norms uncritically. So if for whatever reason a society develops in such a way that somethings become the norm then few people are going to stray from the norm.
[–]Hoodwink 9 points10 points11 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
There's a theory that's backed up by observations of countries like Denmark, Sweden, and 'East' Germany where female interest engineering declines as living standards increase.
Basically, what drives females to high income and dependable vocations is insecurity about getting a higher-income earning mate. The more security they feel about marrying rich or at least middle-class and comfortable - the less likely they'll choose something like STEM, finance, or business.
Basically, the way to get women to choose these vocations is to impoverish men. (Or the appearance that they can depend on their looks to get into a SAHM existence.)
[–]TRP Vanguardss_camaro[S] 7 points8 points9 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
"You, dear, may sit by the window. There is no danger that you will fly away."
[–]Panzer_Geist 18 points19 points20 points 12 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link
Is anyone surprised? Anyone who has gone to college has seen this. I remember my freshman year when the engineering department was proud over the fact that we had about 10 % women in Chemical Engineering. Fast forward to my junior year and there are two girls left, neither of whom are really doing too well. They are passing but that's about it. Every time they are in our study group I find that most of us get annoyed at them. They are more interested in giggling and talking shit than actually working out problems. It's gotten to the point where everyone avoids them when it's time to form study groups.
Ugly girls are like dudes. They have to work to make something out of their lives.
On a side note I'd say that I'm at about average IQ. I definitely know people for whom STEM clicks much faster. My advantage is that I have a sick work ethic. I absolutely refuse to ever give up, which at the end has always placed me on the top - above the guys with natural talent. And THAT is the fundamental characteristic that females lack. When I tell my male friends that I average 5-6hrs of sleep on weekdays, work out 7 days a week, work 20hrs a week and maintain a 4.0 GPA they are impressed. When I tell girls the same thing they look at me like I'm crazy. That's the fundamental difference.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
They are more interested in giggling and talking shit than actually working out problems.
This is why I hate working in groups, instead of shutting the fuck up and getting the work done people rather bullshit for the first hour and complain how mean and unfair the professor is. STFU and we can get the work done I have more important shit to do
[–]CSMastermind 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's more annoying how they're essentially forcing women into computer science by holding jobs open for them in spite of qualifications, lowering requirements for female applicants, and massively funding support groups while leaving men out to dry.
[–]vittinator -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link
I have a 4.0 GPA, and am also the top of my class in physics, math, AP Chem and Latin (I'm abysmal at english compared to my other friends bleh). I'm the president of the math team at my school too, and I also study from 4 pm to 12 am with a little bit of breaks in between. I usually take weekends off with only the necessary homework needed to be done, so it's not that I'm dying from the stress. I'm also in the high honors society AND know two languages fluently (I was raised in an italian family in America). I am aiming to get into MIT to major in Astronomy (Wish me luck!).
To be added, I go to a very competitive school, blue ribbon awarded actually, so it is not as if the classes are innately easy and everyone is getting the same grades as me. The classes I go to are mostly dominated by men, but all the other female students work just as hard as them and me, for there is no trial for error.
[–]1Zanford 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Congrats and gold star I guess, but your story is 'typical' in the following way: I have noticed successful STEM females tend to study super super super hard. I suspect they are having to compensate for lower natural aptitude in these fields (but it is great that they are doing so and I wish more would). The slacker-genius STEM students who excel despite modest effort are virtually always male.
You should measure the ratios of your index to ring finger lenghts (and google what that means). You are likely high T. As in Testosterone.
Or as in Troll.
[–]vittinator 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
My guy friend works just as hard as me, or even more to get the grades I do. Are there men who are naturally gifted? Of course! But they can't do shit with that gift if they don't work hard.
[–]rpkarma 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
In real life, you are correct. In school? I aced everything despite being a lazy useless fuck (and boy do I regret it...), topped my entire year (including our standardised test) across all the subjects I did.
Basically, my point is, there are people who can cruise through highschool and ace everything. They are guys, though. A girl in my year was a good friend of mine, and was always 2nd or close to the top for ever subject she did, but she studied far far harder than I ever did. Anyway, that's just some anecdotal evidence.
None of that matters once you leave highschool, and those who have a work ethic will destroy those who have aptitude but no motivation.
[–]vittinator 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I guess we went to different high schools, because at my school having no work ethic won't get you anywhere :(
But that's an interesting story.
[–]pupplenupple 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Absolutely. True for everyone. Doesn't matter how talented you are there is always someone just as talented who is working harder. Hard work is unavoidable if you want to be competitive.
[–]vittinator -2 points-1 points0 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Like my girlfriend. She is the smartest person I know when it comes to math, but she never does her work so she gets bad grades :( whenever I think about it I always get insanely jealous
[–]vittinator 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link
Oh and I'm a 17 year old female
[–]-Tyler_Durden-6 points 12 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link
Please read.
[–]vittinator 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
point
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your head
[–]Max_Cash 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Have you ever been discouraged from pursuing a career in science? Really curious.
[–]vittinator 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
My parents are completely supportive. Heck, they're the ones that really got me interested in astronomy and the likes (they're total science buffs).
The teachers on the other hand, not so much. You see this mostly in female teachers than males, but they would rather listen to a guy's ideas than a girl's. I might say an idea, and they would dismiss it, but then ten minutes later a man might say it and they'll aplaud it.
Plus they grade us harder, because apparently since we're female we have to prove that we're "smarter" than the rest. We're not smarter, we're the same. My best friend, who is a guy and the vice president of the math team, could get the same answers on the test as me but I got the lower grade because "I wrote the five weird" and "could have done better" on solving a problem
Female teachers treat us like shit and ignore us in STEM classes, while male teachers just treat us like special diasies because we have vaginas and know how to solve an equation.
It's not really "discouragement" but it is an annoyance women don't have in any other field.
[–]1Zanford 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
How do you know they grade you harder? Do you have specific examples where you saw a male student get a better grade for objectively same/worse work?
Most people consider themselves undervalued.
[–]vittinator 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I used the same method as my friend to solve a problem, but I got one point off because I "should have used the method I taught you" (direct quote). The teacher was an asshole.
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
[permanently deleted]
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
[+]vittinator -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I want people to realize that women can work just as hard as men?
Also a cookie would be GREAT. But it has to be gluten free because celiac disease and all. BUT THANK YOU!
[–][deleted] 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
[–]vittinator -5 points-4 points-3 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I'm younger than 18, you know that, right?
[–]aakksshhaayy 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Those are some outstanding qualifications, bravo. Of course you are among the top students and can get into almost any program of your choice.
[–]Moresolater 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The author thinks it's odd that philosophy is male dominated. I don't. Female solipsism prevents most girls from truly understanding and appreciating philosophy. Truly understanding (and excelling at) philosophy requires suspension of the ego to take on ideas that may run counter to your own beliefs. The ability to suspend those beliefs is very uncommon in females as everything must relate to them somehow. You'll notice even in social situations girls will try to deflect the conversation back towards themselves. Nothing makes girls more uncomfortable than a bunch of men discussing something that does not relate to them.
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
What is also interesting is the quant stats on SAT by gender considering the SAT quant is essentially 6-7th grade math made challenging by VERBAL gymnastics, misdirections, and weird word-based tricks. So if women are only slightly worse than men at math, they would do equally well at the SAT-Math because they are according to most results on par with men in verbal / language based tests. Additionally, everyone likes to say "yeah but there's an equal number of dumb men too since men are more polarized."
True, but this measures average SAT. That is bundled in. I agree that men are represented higher in the extremes on both ends, but the data is the data. And it doesn't even boil down to "men are more mathematical, women are more verbal." If that were the case, why would SAT-Verbal be so even?
What we have happening is that at lower ages, women do mature faster mentally and do develop their reading / language processing abilities earlier. Yet men catch up in that regard and escalate ahead mathematically. I wonder what the stats for college acceptance to top 50 schools would look like if the government mandated all decisions were gender-blind.
[–]t21spectre 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
SAT quant is essentially 6-7th grade math made challenging by VERBAL gymnastics, misdirections, and weird word-based tricks.
Women are better at these than men, that's how the playing field has been leveled, men do worse, women do better. Real mathematics rarely deals with "Train A left Chicago at..." real math mostly has obvious quantifiable numbers and solutions, not nonsensical wordplay as if mixed with a language class. "Word problems" have been used to level the field because women do better at them, in real mathematics their are no "word problems."
[–][deleted] 12 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
True, true, that is something very obvious that my analysis missed.
[–]Hoodwink -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I also think western culture tends to put much more emphasis on giving/telling girls the tools for success while kicking the boys to the curb when they show small amounts of failure.
Parental investment in children is not gender-blind. Western college education for women is effectively a western dowry (parents are more likely to sacrifice and take out those loans for women).
[–]jolly--roger 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I can't believe philosophy is so high. Chicks going philosophy way here are basically unusable for life and rarely show signs of intelligent life.
[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I took a lot of philosophy classes and the reason is that a lot of philosophy is understanding verbal logic particularly of the arcane nature (that is also common on standardized tests).
But really what is going on here is just that philosophy is 67% male as a major (which did surprise me, but I did some googling and it seems to be true). It is going to have higher IQ / SAT results because of that (since as a general trend higher % male = higher stats, with very few exceptions).
[–]1EastIndiaComp 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
There's a lot of variation in what is called 'philosophy' between universities. Departments are usually known for affiliating with the analytic and logical tradition, or postmodern Marxist post-structuralism. Any department with a serious philosophy department (ie. not Marxist) would not have many female lecturers or students.
[–]1Zanford 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Pay gap explained. Chicks choose easier majors. Lots of physics guys go into finance or tech and make bank.
This jives with my personal experience that the Verbal SAT is fluff and the Math SAT is the real deal.
Also, we see that college men have higher IQs than college women. This is likely for two reasons:
Men have a higher variance in IQ, and college students are mostly the right half of the bell curve.
Fewer men in college than women; college men are likely further into their gender's right tail than college women.
In addition, this data suggests men are more likely to "use" their IQ to challenge themselves.
[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Very nice post. I think this reflects the fact that smart women don't want to go into the traditional 'nerd' subjects.
[–]Endorsed ContributorInvalidity 15 points16 points17 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
It's far easier to find a beta bux provider than it is to take on a demanding job with more responsibilities.
[–]PolishDistiller 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
want
Read it again, it has nothing todo with want, but with capability. Unless you think they want to have a lower average IQ?
[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 12 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
A naive reader may look at this graph and conclude that men are smarter than women, but it is vital to note that, on average, men and women have about the same IQ.
Directly quoted from the article. So yes. They either chose to act dumber or is being pressured to do so.
[–]1EastIndiaComp 6 points7 points8 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I think the key to understand is that women do have the capability to pursue the harder courses but they choose not to out of an ingrained expectation that they will eventually find someone else (a man) to provide for them.
[–]2Overkillengine 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Bingo. Going to suck for them when no men show up to do that anymore.
[–]CSMastermind 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Averages can be deceiving. The part of the human genome with the greatest variance is the y-chromosome. Source. This leads to having some men who are extremely gifted while other men are extremely ungifted. Women by contrast are clustered around being average. You get something like this:
http://i.imgur.com/yRmrcQy.png
Where women are the red curve and men are one of the other two. Same average, greater variance.
[–]TRP Vanguardnicethingyoucanthave 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I wonder what that unlabeled outlier is around 120 IQ and more than 75% female. Nursing maybe?
My guess is English Lit. Bright but batshit upper middle-class girls. The same basic sort who do women's studies degrees but smart enough to know even in their first year of college to avoid putting that label on themselves. They are the ones who carousel ride like there is no tomorrow then actually find their beta at the Wall with zero seconds left on their clock, and swan off to a life of lunching with their friends at trendy cafes. You don't want to go there.
[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
https://plot.ly/~randal_olson/10
"Arts-History ..."
Bizarre, to say the least.
[–]lawonga 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
According to this chart the people in my major have an average IQ of 128. While I haven't checked it formally myself with a psychologist I sincerely hope that I score somewhere up there, although I'm scared of finding out.
[–]My_Dog_Jax 0 points1 point2 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
My coworker and I had a bit of a debate about this. We both agreed that the M/F ratio in STEM majors is staggeringly in favor of males. What he then proposed was that evenuntally it will get very close to a 50/50 because of the increase in women and decrease of men in college.
IS there any evidence to support this one way or the other? I've tried looking but have yet to find anything.
[+][deleted] -6 points-5 points-4 points 12 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
"130+: Very superior intelligence 120-129: Superior 110-119: Above average 90-109: Average"
"130+: Very superior intelligence
120-129: Superior
110-119: Above average
90-109: Average"
Welcome to everyone gets a trophy culture.
[–]charlie_gillespie 12 points13 points14 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
What makes you say that?
An IQ of 100 is average...
[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
100 actually is average in that if we put this shit on a normal distribution, the mean would be right there.
[–]Max_Cash 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Certainly no one with an IQ under 90 would consider themself a winner.
[–]1Zanford 2 points3 points4 points 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
It's college students, so it does tend to be the right side of the bell curve.
I notice Social Work is close to a sub-100 average IQ. lulz.
Two thirds of people go to college. That's high enough that there would be a few below average intelligence majors. Especially when a few are >120.
[–]manwhy -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
All I see in this post is Below Average.
[–]tedbradly -1 points0 points1 point 12 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
50% of Harvard-graduated women end up not using their degrees - they turn into house wives.
The explanation is relatively simple: Smart women are comfortable enough in their own skins to admit they just want to rear children. And by god, that is actually a great, fulfilling life.
Stupid women are socialized by feminists to avoid child-rearing and child birth.
That's why working women flock to lower-IQ jobs. Those with low IQ aren't smart enough to find a man of their dreams and live the dreamy life of rearing kids.
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[–]RPDBF31 points [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link
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