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[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret9 points10 points11 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
If you would make a plan and stick to it for a few months, you might make progress. Instead, you come here every 3 days with a new plan, all you end up doing is spinning your wheels.
Chart a course and then get there. It's going to take more than 3 days.
[–]GargantuaBlarg29 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Jesus thank you. Someone had to say it. He's still looking for the easy way...and this time it's an excuse: "I'm a unique MRP guy." "Shes the problem because she hates it here."
[–]FireTempered 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Yes, His thinking is circular, self-defeating, at best.
[–]FireTempered 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago* (30 children) | Copy Link
Her Chad is her home. You must decide, what do you really want to do. She must decide what she really wants to do. This could be the end, and you need to get ready for that.
She won't cheat and end it, but she appears to be asking you to end it, covertly. IMO she is a non-assertive person that is very angry with being away for her "home", and YOU are the cause. She probably will not even admit to her anger. If you offer to take her home, she may say no. Get it straight, you have to lead here 100%, she is not going to be any help to you. More later.....
That's is why nothing makes any sense to you, and you mostly don't make any sense to us.
You are 100% deep into your Oneitis and you cannot believe that her Chad is "where she came from". Now is the time to believe it or just keep going around in circles trying to understand that which you will not allow yourself to believe. In trying to understand and placate her you have made yourself even more beta and even less attractive, and this shit has to stop now. If for no other reason than to reclaim your self respect.
[–]alpha_as_chiwawa points points points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Her chad is her home. Spot on. She's not even denying it, it's just that i never put 2+2 together.
I have offered her to go (not even long ago), but the kids stay with me. No, she would go and take the kids. Well no, while I have no problem with her leaving, I don't give her the kids.
So it is not at all about oneitis. She is kinda pressuring me to do a "mistake" - just so she could get the kids.
[–]FireTempered 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Not many men ever end up with the kids completely. You are whistling Dixie out your ass holding on this hope.
[–]FireTempered 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
She is kinda pressuring me to do a "mistake" - just so she could get the kids
WTF are you really saying here? Be clear with me.
She has been ignoring me sexually. Interestingly, she's been ignoring me more since I started lifting, dropped bf% considerably, started doing sports etc. And then these thongs on the GNO...
It's like she's saying "no mater what you do, no mater how good you are, you will never get what you want from me". Implying: get it somewhere else.
But of course if I do, she'll run home crying what kind of bastard I am, and everyone will back her up; she could spin this against me with the kids "daddy decided he doesnt want to be family anymore, so we are moving back home".
If I don't "cheat" (I mean, It would hardly be cheating at this point), she has a problem. Kids like it here and they would hate her if she drags them back.
If she can turn it against me, blaming daddy that they had to leave, she wins.
IMO your "circular" thinking keeps coming back to you cheating, "because you have to" "because she made you do it." You seem to be able to exclude all other possibilities.
I'm just obeying Murphy's law here. Second time for me, and, Done.
[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link
I never considered Chad as a place or thing, only a person. Is this in the sidebar? Did I miss this? Profound.
[–]FireTempered 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link
Chad is a symbol. Her home is more important to her than him. She is literally cheating on him by wanting her home more than him, and blaming him for her problem. Just as with any Chad symbol, the only solution is to assertively confront this issue with her. Placating beta behavior will make her hate him even more, probably already has.
His only solution here is to completely, C_O_M_P_L_E_T_E_L_Y take charge of this and bring this pot to a boil. No more nice guy bullshit that pushes this shit show down the road. It only gets worse.
[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
I overlooked that completely as him hamstering. I don't see any point in dragging it out either, if that's the case. Learned something again, thanks.
[–]FireTempered 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
Not drag it out, but do the confrontation that she will not do. If he can come to terms with it and confront it in an assertive way, she might make some decisions that she is not willing to make so far. The problem with placating a non-assertive angry person is you make them MORE non-assertive and more angry. He thinks he is doing everything right and he is slowly cutting out his own heart.
[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link
But I don't think you're talking the "fuck you or fuck me" conversation? You are saying, let her know you know what's up. I imagine this happening in a jack10 sort of way...
[–]FireTempered 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago* (17 children) | Copy Link
Not FMorFU, but chose me or chose home. There can be no "other" more important than me if this marriage is to continue. (edit: and vice-versa)
[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
Heavy. And early in his MAP. But it could be the beginning of him establishing his frame and setting some expectations overtly.
[–]FireTempered 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link
Without this problem solved, he CANNOT ever get his frame. She is telling him what the problem is, and, he is not acting on it, thus he is shit to her. She is begging him to fix it or end it, but she needs him to do it. If left to her and her lack of agency she has shown so far, and, left to him and his lack of confronting this issue, this marriage will just keep sinking. Add to this, they both are knee deep in wanting to "not be the bad guy". Total set up for failure.
It is a good thing he finally divulged the reason why he is in living hell, I had just recently said to him, "that's all you get". Surprise MoFo!
[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
It was kind of a boy who cried wolf thing for me, but you caught the reality. I was thinking, oh this guy again with another cynical, invented story about his relationship, just let it go and get a life, jesus. You took him seriously, and I think you were right to do so. I hope he reads this: /u/alpha_as_chiwawa
[–]pikadildo2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah, she may want to go home but is it because home is bliss or because home is an escape? I don't think OP is reliable in terms of telling us what's really going on.
I was reviewing his early posts and I still want to know where he is with his talk a few months ago about no longer wanting to fuck his wife and how he seem to enjoy that it was making her nag/beg for sex. He was trying to force her to wear sexy underwear--which suggests they've both weaponized sex.
They both know the other's weak spots and it sounds like they're trying to tear each other down.
[–]FireTempered3 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
she may want to go home but is it because home is bliss or because home is an escape
Does it matter?
With this conflict, they are in conflict as should be expected.
His reliability? well his words are all we have to go on, not my problem.
[–]pikadildo1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah, I think it actually does. OP sounds needy as fuck. Fixing that is entirely within his power.
I think he's finding excuses not do anything.
I'm trying to have an open mind but this whole idea that his wife is alpha widowed by some anthropomorphic geographic location seems... dunno...
Does moving back make him a cuck?
He is needy and has his own problems, no doubt about that, and that is his problem.
He makes many excuses, like all the noobs.
Her fixation is on going home. All the rest about Chad or alpha is fluff to try to explain or compare it. Probably just confuses the issue even further.
Regardless, this is the fact he has to deal with, (or not, based on his priors) That's the point of deciding what he is going to do FIRST. Then execute with or without her. If he decides what he is doing and executes, then I don't see how he could be a cuck.
I drew him a map. I really don't care if he can't, or, won't follow it.
[–]AmericanViking642 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I went through a similar situation with my wife early in our marriage, and I think it was a bit of both home and escape. I went further down the spiral and she eventually left for home. I straightened up and got her back. Shes pretty fond of living away from her family as long as her husband is not a fuck up.
[–]weakandsensitive1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
you should always be ready to be the bad guy if you have to be. being the bad guy can be a temporary thing. being a bad guy might just be you enforcing boundaries.
don't be the harmful or spiteful guy.
[–]AmericanViking642 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
Yup. He can make huge steps in the right direction when he starts to fog "pack your shit and move if you are that unhappy".
OP if you can say that ^ and hold frame then do it. Obviously it comes with a risk (that you should ALWAYS be willing to take).
[–]FireTempered 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link
Step 1 - acknowledge that he understands the problem to her.
Step 2 - Decide if he is going to stay put or move back. This is the most critical step.
Step 3 - Act on that decision. If he stays, then deliver her back home. If he goes home, offer to take her with him and make sure she understands that the marriage is on probation once they return. If she is still not totally with him after returning home, it ends. If she is back to the woman he married, she stays.
The other option is give up all of his self respect, and more, over time. That's OK, I hear u/Bogeyd6 knows how to clean up the mess when he suicides out.
EDIT: Then again, I could have it all wrong. Only OP can know what to do for sure. Best
[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Militia2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Would not recommend.
[–]AmericanViking641 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
This is a crossroads, for sure. Its a lot harder to do that than it is to just sit back and blame the harpy in anger.
I imagine the internal temptation to reject this reality includes a lot of "but I've already tried so hard" and "its not fair".
I wouldn't say any of this if I had not already been there and done that. If I could save my sorry ass from a life of being a pussy, he can too. This is all pretty universal stuff here.
It's not her I care about. It's the kids. She wants to take them with her, that's her laverage.
[–]FireTempered1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
So the kids are your excuse for being a shitty man? At some point you are going to have to decide what YOU are going to do about YOUR family. As I first said, some decisions need to be made. You and your wife are engaged in mutual annihilation strategy with her "home" being her mental point and your "kids" being your mental point.
She has proved she does not have the courage or agency to act. Unfortunately you are proving the same.
Again I drew you a MAP, but you do you. Enjoy your shitty life.
[–]BirdManBrrrr2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
blaming him for her problem
Is it her home she really wants, or is her want of home is amplified because she's stuck with a weak, whiny husband? Nothing he's said recently had demonstrated he is anything else but...
The question becomes: Would she tolerate a non-preferred location if she had a strong, emotionally stable, high value Oak of a man who was leading the family with purpose?
Everyone keeps telling him "sidebar" yet he keeps making excuses and is fixated on her underwear as some insult to his honor; its not as if he's been working and improving and her behavior has not changed in light of it.
[–]FireTempered 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The home part, her perception is her reality, IMO he knows her reality but ignores any solution. Agree that he's been a little bitch and needs work.
Maybe yes, maybe no. He is what she has right now and that's her only game for now, so this "what if" doesn't matter at the moment.
He does need to absorb more of the sidebar and keep working on him. The thong wearing on GNO and cotton panties at home, is a slap and she knows it.
[–]2ndalRed Beret6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
So I'm not in an average MRP situation; whatever I do, even if I were Chad, she would want to return home, I'm 100% sure of it.
Just do the work. Don't keep coming up with excuses.
MRP works not because of how it changes her. It works because how it changes YOU. It would work whether she was living in a foreign country or on the moon.
Grow some balls and get to work.
[–]pikadildo 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link
Maybe you're both just hurting each other trying to "win" your way out of a stalemate. You're trying to understand why she's hurting you and it's taking your brain to silly places--she doesn't wear thongs or fancy underwear for you because she... wants to move home. Even it it's remotely plausible, it's hilarious.
The only way forward is to realize there's nothing to win and that she can't actually hurt you by not wearing thongs.
[–]donedreadpirateRed Beret2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link
I have to say you have one of the worst cases of living in your wife's frame I have seen since I joined. I really hope you stick with this because I'm going to enjoy watching you escape. Take on this mentality: Fuck her. Forget it. She's nothing to me. She's gone. I'm moving on. Join something social. Join a social group. Start going out without her. Keep lifting. Hit on girls constantly. You need to start building your own life. You are living in her life. You are missing out on your life. Edit: /u/FireTempered just showed me (and you) the light. I change my mind. Don't take my advice. Take his.
[–]FireTempered 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You were right, he is knee deep in her frame, and, yes, one of the worst I've seen. You were also right he needs to take charge of this and do what is right for him and her and get on with their lives that they both are wasting.
[–]BobbyPeru1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You were right, he is knee eyeball deep in her frame
[–]stonepimpletilists 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
No one is special or unique
Get your head out of her ass. Jesus doesn't like anal
[–]FireTempered 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
Yes, that's the link OP needs. She's begging and he ain't paying any attention. Needs to bring this pot to a boil and be ready for some changes with his snowflakey.
[–]stonepimpletilists 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Man. I don't know if theres a combination of words to express the joy and success that comes with the ability to shoulder risk, adopt a scorched earth policy, or otherwise committ 100% to path.
I still look for it
I TOOK CHARGE OF IT.
Definition: I am a man on fire. Get in the way of my mission and I will fuck you up. I do this because I must. No matter the outcome, I will be better for it.
...... and the windmills will be defeated again.
[–]FireTempered 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
Better, simpler, easy to understand:
Man On Fire
[–]stonepimpletilists 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I do like that.
Yup, something like that
Ill believe youve internalized that when your field reports read like a man on fire.
[–]AmericanViking642 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Dude your wife doesn't give a shit where she lives. She is probably being honest when she tells you that's why she is unhappy/bored but in reality she doesn't know either (or wont admit it).
Since you don't want to admit that your wife wants Chad / your not Chad, you end up believing the same bullshit she tells herself. Literally the definition of living in her frame.
Forget about your wife, she has long since forgotten about you. You disappeared years ago and regardless of your improvements she still cant see a significant change yet.
[–]screechhaterRed Beret2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
You are spinning so hard, you aren't making semse. Just chill. Sit back and learn to laugh at her behavior.
Perhaps it's time to fake it until you make it
[–]MRPFuckMe12 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
The plan for stay or go is the same--marriage or where you live.
What's the plan dude?
On a side note, you've got one hell of a hamster there. And you sure as shit like to feed it.
[–]Turbotec2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Take a hypothetical look at your recent journey on a map. It seems like you are all over the place. Drunk captain! It's time to buckle down and focus on becoming a better man for yourself. How much of this post is about her and in her frame! Dude! Get out of her frame and get back to the basics!!! The rest will fall in line. And if it doesn't....well it's time for you to start working on your IDGAF attitude!
[–]youmolide points points points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Holy Shite !
Just went thru a version of this myself. (Sidenote : Have no idea what the OP's backstory is here)
My story - married 15 years - moved around for work a lot - got tired of it and bought some land in the country - my son and I built the house ourself. Wife is a foreigner, grew up in city. Also just turned 39 (Rollo's rational male talks about this danger point).
So over the summer of building the house get in best physical shape of entire marriage - wife comes back, hates new house.
I was not Red Pilled when this was going on, but I (luckily) didn't make a lot of mistakes dealing with it either - and what mistakes I did make, I now have a plan for making sure they never happen again.
Basically the first couple of times the whining came up I sat down and 'splained' it all to her - why we were here (much better environment for kids and for the family as a whole) and how important this was for the development of our children and how we had discussed doing this for years now, and she had agreed with ever step along the path to where we now were.
After a few more sessions like this, I basically sat down and told her this is what we are going to do, and if it's not something she can handle, she needed to think about leaving. I told her I loved her, but if she was always going to be unhappy with what we had decided, then she needed to go somewhere else. And after 8 months of this, she left.
Took her to the bus station, gave her a little wave goodbye (should have seen the look on her face when I did that ) and off she went.
Divorce paperwork done (I handled all of it) worked out the custody of the kids (they get to decide who they want to live with and when as long as they don't flipflop too often) and gave her a big fat fuck off check - not going to do alimony for the rest of my life. Kids now live with me almost all the time. And if they decide their mom is a better bet, that's their decision and I'll deal with that if/when it happens too.
While married, I paid for everything - wife never had to work - now she is out on her own and finding out that working 40 hours a week at shit minwage jobs isn't that much fun. Not my circus, not my monkeys.
In the end, in this kind of situation you have to decide HOW important the decision you made to uproot your family IS. In my case, my father did something similar when I was 10 and it literally changed my ENTIRE existence for the better - made me tougher stronger smarter - and I want that for MY kids. Strike that - my kids NEED that experience to make them the best they can be.
So it came down to : Pacify the wife OR do what is best for your kids (and your entire family). Verdict : No contest in my book - There's the door. Go thru it or don't. Your choice. I'm sad she chose that road - but she did CHOOSE it, not me - so the only thing I can do is pick myself up off the floor, evaluate any mistakes I made, make changes to avoid a repeat, and get out there and find someone better. And there are lots of 'better' out there. Even at my age (57) I'm doing just fine in that department.
Here's the kicker- if I HAD chosen to pacifiy the wife, I am 95 % convinced I would have ended up divorced anyways. And ... here's another takeaway - all of this went down with me being in the best shape of my marriage. Didn't matter to her.
All you can do in life is make yourself the best man, the best father, the best husband you can be - and even then, it STILL might not be enough to keep you married. Men have to deal with all kinds of shit situations in life. This is just another one of them. I learn, I adjust, I come out the other end smarter and stronger - that's not that bad of an outcome in my book.
[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
A woman doesn't need your elaborate scheme to turn into a bitch. It comes perfectly natural without any of the immigration issues and the solution is exactly the same. This is not a special situation at all.
Also you can't control the wife's bitchy behavior. You can only control how you respond to the bitchy behavior.
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[–]SteelToeShitKickerRed Beret9 points10 points11 points (2 children) | Copy Link
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