Catch 22

RPMahoutsukai · 2014-11-17T14:41:04+00:00

It's not manipulation.

I was like you once OP. I thought: it's manipulation, I have to censor feelings, I have to roleplay, I have to trick her etc. to get into her pants. I was disgusted and so I tried to revert to beta self after getting sex and that ruined my relationships.

It's actually not that bad at all.

When you say "I love you" to a woman and do not hold back your feelings, the problem really is that you are not a good man. That's a harsh truth. But it is so! You lack abundance mentality, self-assurance, you lack a clear mission and a purpose, you lack understanding of women... or at least something of these and other points, and this makes you misunderstand the situation.

Examine this:

When does saying "I love you" hurt your relationships? They say in the game theory that it's bad when you say it "too soon". Now let's assume you have abundance mentality (you have access to more female attention and sexual favors than you can consume), you are self-assured (you've got a job you like, interesting hobbies, you live in a house you like etc.)... how soon would you profess love to a woman who you have just met? Who you're on a first date with? You see, in order to have some strong feelings for her, it would take her some effort to actually prove she's better than others. That's why she would most likely tell you she loves you before you tell her you love her, and when you tell her you love her, it won't hurt your relationships - instead, you'd make her insanely happy.

Examine something else:

When you have abundance of quality women, those women are somewhere above the average, right? That's why they're "quality". So, they deserve to have "quality" men, right? Can they afford to love you unconditionally then? Obviously not, because then they would be stuck to a random low-quality man. At the same time, when you have abundance of quality women, would you want to be stuck "loving" someone who's not satisfying your needs, who's not giving you what you want? You don't love unconditionally too, do ya? You see, it's actually reasonable and fair for them not to love you unconditionally!

Another example:

Do you love it when your woman does something special for you? Like, IDK, some sexual treat, or some tasty food, or compliments your manliness? When she makes effort to recognize and learn what you prefer and give it to you? Well, women have needs too! So when you learn how to "game" women, when you learn how to roleplay, create emotional rollercoasters, pass shit tests, dominate and so on - you're learning how to MAKE HER HAPPY. It's not some filthy trick - it's a genuine way to make the relationship enjoyable to her. If it's counter-intuitive for you... well, men are also not so simple to women, don't you know? And some things men like, say, in sex, may be outright painful or unpleasant to them (anal sex, deep throat), isn't that counter-intuitive that men want such things?

You need a paradigm shift. You're stuck in your old system. When you fully convert, and start seeing things differently, everything will fall into place.

tombreck2 · 2014-11-17T13:34:20+00:00

I WANT to have a woman to whom I can say "I love you" and have her love me back, unconditionally

One of those women exists right now; your mom.

To further your point: Imagine you find a great girl, you talk to her, go on a few dates but she just isn't interested.

However, in a parallel universe with all things the same, except for the fact that you are worth $100 million, you go on a few dates with this girl and she falls head over heels in love with you.

ImRasputin · 2014-11-17T15:10:29+00:00

Welcome to life my friend.

crazycattime · 2014-11-17T15:49:09+00:00

You're operating from a false premise. You don't have to behave like someone you don't want to be to get a woman. You will have to adjust your behavior to attract and retain a woman. Those two statements are not contradictory.

The point of the RP is to open your eyes to the truth. What you do with it is up to you. Forget about the catch-22 for the time being. You sound ripe for some monk mode. Focus on yourself for a little while and you will naturally come to a place where you're ready to evaluate how you interact with women.

At that point, you will be in a much better position to consider how you approach women, in a way that is congruent with your values.

favours_of_the_moon · 2014-11-17T13:59:16+00:00

One thing you could do in this situation is stop being a pussy. If you want unconditional love, get a puppy. Or call your mom.

If you man up, a woman will be willing to devote herself to you. But you don't have to fall in love with every piece of ass you tap. Are you really that sentimental?

magicalbird · 2014-11-18T05:43:14+00:00

I WANT to have a woman to whom I can say "I love you" and have her love me back, unconditionally.

No such thing exists where it's unconditional. However you can get close if you are very high value and go for a cute girl (not the dream models that always play games). Your immense high value will make her wet at the very site of you and madly in love with you.

GunsGermsAndSteel · 2014-11-17T16:06:02+00:00

Over time, with self-discipline, the way you "should" feel becomes the way you DO feel.

Regulate yourself.

And if you feel like you don't want to bother with women... Don't. You are not required to pursue them. Your worth as a man is not dependent upon your relationships with females.

boxofcookies101 · 2014-11-17T16:10:07+00:00

Honestly just look at things in relevant value. Have you ever had a girl that came on too strong? Didn't you swerve that? Now let's examine why.

Giving people emotional investment too soon means the actual value of what you have is shit. It has no real meaning behind it. Because just as easy as you give it to her you'll give it to someone else. Same thing as pussy. A woman who sleeps around her pussy has no value. Which is why she's not dating material.

So when something is given too easy we as a species tend to be extremely weary of it and less likely to sacrifice for it. And will be much more willing to actually shit all over it. Which is why we plate hoes and date women. And why if you freely give away your emotional investment women will swerve you or just string you along.

The reason you withhold your emotions is because she hasn't done her part to get them. Just being a woman and having a hole to fuck is not enough for a man of value and isn't enough for them either.

For you to get that unconditional love that your looking for I recommend you go find religion or something. Because outside of parents and religion that shit doesn't exist. Because humans don't work like that. Now if your at the top if your game finding and keeping a woman become much easier. She's more inclined to be a loyal woman to you because you are her alpha guy and no one else is even on her radar. When she says she loves you she'll definitely mean it in the moment. But unconditionally? Don't fool yourself kid. I bet if you got addicted to crack she'd abandon your ass in a heartbeat. Hell I'm sure everyone aside from your parents would too. That's the cold reality that we live in.

prettylatebloomer · 2014-11-17T16:26:03+00:00

Girls will be girls. My inability to understand the nature of women in my younger years caused me to miss out on a lot of opportunities. You can choose to be upset with the way the world works, be up upset that you don't get to live by Disney's rules, or you can acknowledge and accept the harsh reality of the world that we live in and take from it what you can get. We only have one life to live. Life can be a lot of fun. Your choice.

Terminal-Psychosis · 2014-11-17T17:48:33+00:00

As well as the radical honesty others are giving you here, you might want to do something to up your testosterone. Lifting heavy things and a diet heavy in T-precursors helps tremendously.

Nothing better than a high libido to put all the worries in your head to rest. Loose your mind and come back to your senses.

LeGrandDiableBlanc · 2014-11-17T18:41:40+00:00

If you haven't yet, Men in Love and Women in Love are required reading.

Understanding that unconditional love is not something that men get from their wives and children is the first step to opening your eyes.

It is not your responsibility to figure out what impact that has on your life goals. For a ton of us, myself included, it makes long term relationships and marriage lose their appeal.

oldredder · 2014-11-18T12:24:18+00:00

I WANT to have a woman to whom I can say "I love you" and have her love me back, unconditionally. If I can't have that, and I have to play all these stupid manipulation games with them, then I really don't want anyone at all.

Then you don't.

That is how it is.

I don't want to be a brainwashed idiot to get a woman & the requirements I have for a woman to be a real girlfriend / wife nearly do not exist on EARTH. And all I'm asking for is integrity, decency, honesty & to show love, plus be attractive now & never let herself go to fat / unhealthiness out of laziness. That's a REALLY FUCKING LOW BAR and 90% of women I'll meet will fail to even approach it.

Title	Catch 22
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	14
Comments	51
Date	November 17, 2014 1:28 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/askTRP
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/asktrp/comments/2mk2as/catch_22/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/askTRP/catch-22.193346 https://theredarchive.com/post/193346

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