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[–]Hmmoklolthisisfine 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link
Depends what the setting is..
If it’s a bar/club scene you should be escalating quickly. If you are with her for 15 mins she’s into you and if you don’t kiss her within 20-30 mins then you’re wasting time and she’s going to move on to a guy with confidence.
If it’s a casual date the vibe is different. But still build tension and escalate physically. Make subtle advances like hold her hand or pull her close. Literally anything you think of to create a physical connection in the moment will work. You should be going in for a kiss between the first and second hour if she’s into you. Don’t wait for the end of the night if the moment is right earlier. Be assertive but if she’s ignoring your physical advances and pulling away then obviously don’t try to kiss her.
Basically yeah you just go for it. So what if you go in for a kiss and kill the vibe? Why would you want to keep hanging out with a girl that’s not into you anyways?
[–]TheSunshineMan 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link
I think kissing a girl when you just met the girl inside the bar or club will only HURT your chances of closing her.
I think it's a mistake.
Wait until you're in a place you can have sex, otherwise she loses her plausible deniability that "it just happened".
[–]Hmmoklolthisisfine 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link
You think or you know? Have you tried it or are you just guessing what the right thing to do is?
Personally if I meet a girl at a bar/club/concert I escalate to dancing and getting physical pretty quickly. I can sense they want to kiss and I feel like it’s a relief for her when I pull the trigger rather than keep them guessing if I have the balls to make a move.
Everyone has their own game though. Whatever works for you keeping getting it bro!
[–]TheSunshineMan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link
It's not a guess.. from my own experience and most guys who have had a lot of success with night game.
You can show you have balls.. if you give off the right vibe.. even if you don't go for the kiss..
[–]Hmmoklolthisisfine 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link
So you’re telling me you meet girls out at club, talk to them all night and don’t escalate to kissing them until you get them back to your place that night?
What’s your success rate with that tactic?
I feel like if I kiss a girl when I’m out there’s absolutely 0% chance I’m not taking her home or at least hooking up in my car.
[–]TheSunshineMan 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
Well first of all.. if you're waiting until the end of the night to try and have sex with her.. you're doing night game all wrong.
You should be trying to pull her from the club from within the first 5 minutes of meeting her in a methodical baby steps way.
If she's not willing to leave the club with you within 20-25 minutes, set up the date, get the number, go on to the next girl.
NOT - spend your whole night with one girl, then try to pull a Hail Marry at the end of the night.
But I personally don't do either of those two strategies as they're not as efficient as far as number of lays for time spent as just mass number collecting/date set up.
The best guys in the world at night game only sleep with a girl every 3-4 nights.
That's a 30% chance of getting a lay per night out - or - .30% chance.
VS
What I do..
I go out there and set a goal of getting 20 numbers and as many dates set up of those as possible.
Worst case I'll get 10 numbers on a BAD night.
Worst case I'll sleep with only 2 of those girls.. over the next week.
That's sex with 2 girls per night out.. worst case.
That's 6x more girls than the best night game guys in the world who try to do same night pulls.
600% more lays per night out.
And on a good night, I'll get 20 numbers and have sex with at least 5 of those girls over the next week..
Often times more..
Add in online game and day game and this is why I always say almost anyone can sleep with 100+ girls a year.. if they truly wanted to.
Yet 99% of everyone thinks it's bullshit.
Nope..
It's called putting yourself out there in the most efficient way possible and putting lots of leads into your funnel, and you'll get massive results.
[–]Hmmoklolthisisfine 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Lovin the stats man! You really know your numbers.
To be fair I’m no PUA. I don’t watch their videos or read about their stats so I couldn’t even tell you about any of that. Sometimes I even have to google definitions you guys post on here haha
My games natural and getting better with time. I’ve always got girls and I’ll always get girls. I simply like to share my success/advice with the guys on here who seem to be struggling with the basics.
Also props to you bro on your crazy success rate! I don’t even go out to get numbers. Everything I do in life, I do for me. When I hit the bars I get a group of my friends to go out for a good time, not to get girls. If I see a girl while I’m out that I’m diggin I’ll go get her number and if the vibes right hook up. Personally I think it’s important for these guys to not let women totally consume their lives and be a top priority. That’s just what feels right for me though. I know we’re all different!
Also you’re a fucking animal! 5 girls in a week!! I could never haha with my career and outside work life I have one, or maybe two days if I’m lucky, to make time for a girl. My Mon-Fri 6am-10pm are dedicated entirely to me and my improvement in life.
I think I’m just a little more casual and less goal focused when it comes to women but I respect your game brotha! Keep crushing it!
[–]TheSunshineMan 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
There's nothing wrong with that..
And it's not a competition, I just know most guys, if they go out on a Friday or Saturday night would like to get laid, like that would be the best case scenario.
I know I'm different than most guys, I treat it like a hobby.. some times, like other hobbies I have, that's all I want to do and it's my focus.
But there are other times where I get sick of girls and may only bang 1-2 girls a month..
But then the next month I'll bang 20+.
Like I said at the end of the day, it's up to you to decide what you want and what will make you happy.
[–]Hmmoklolthisisfine 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Spoken like a true king! Much respect man. Looking forward to seeing more advice you post in the sub
[–]antonthecad 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
Yeah, I went on a date recently. We went for drinks, vibe was great. I just walked her back to my place. She did the whole "oh I didn't expect this" ...5 mins later she's naked. Never kissed her before we were in bed. It definitely happens more than you think. Each situation is different. I just see kissing as a form of escalation but it's not the only form of escalate. If you're calibrated you can escalate in other ways.
I've also had these experiences in clubs, bars whatever....
[–]dry-foo 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
> She did the whole "oh I didn't expect this" ...5 mins later she's naked
I just had the same experience this week. They say those things because the girls never want to come as slutty or too open towards casual sex. And that's acceptable.
The girl I took home was super into me. But when we started making out she said that she's not sure if she's ready for that on the first date. Then I just said to her that I'm not expecting anything from her, let's just have fun and vibe and see what happens. No pressure. Then we let things get a little momentum and 30 mins later we were doing beautiful things together.
Just have the patience and don't put too much pressure on her if that happens.
[–]TheSunshineMan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
I just had the same experience this week. They say those things because the girls never want to come as slutty or too open towards casual sex. And that's acceptable. This is also to weed out the betas.. most betas will be like ok.. that's ok.. stop escalating, stop trying for sex..
This is also to weed out the betas.. most betas will be like ok.. that's ok.. stop escalating, stop trying for sex..
Women are hard wired to weed out betas and not give up sex to just any guy.. from an evolutionary standpoint, women want the strongest seed possible.
"We're not having sex" = beta screen.
[–]antonthecad 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
I agree with this. In a club, if you can hold her hands, it's on. And if it's on you can break the sexual tension by kissing her and giving her that validation release. Just walk her to where you're going to fuck.
[–]dry-foo 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
+1 for breaking the tension. It's a big thing.
Especially on a date the girls have a lot of expectations but also pressure. They are anxious if the guy likes them, if they look good, what their friends think about it when they tell them about it afterwards etc.
So you have to make her feel comfortable, attractive, feminine, accepted. If you show that you want her she will feel really confident and reliefed. But of course the art is how you show it without crossing any boundaries.
[–]dry-foo 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link
I disagree. It depends on the situation and there are no general rules about this unless kissing in the public is somehow demonized in your culture.
There are many occasions of people kissing in a bar/club without changing any words. Just chemistry, vibing and dancing. Besides it's really hard to hear anything because of the music.
You should kiss the girl when there's the perfect time and place for that. But because we don't have the perfect knowledge of what's going in her mind we should take risks and try making the move preferably a bit too early than never.
[–]TheSunshineMan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link
Actually there is..
It's all about maximizing your % of lays, if your goal is sex.
Kiss = 0
Sex = +1
And you're hurting your chances of sex by kissing in public.
Just like if you want to maximize the amount of lays per night out in the club..
You're better off just mass number collecting and date set up with 10-20+ girls..
What most guys do..
Go out and go around until they find a girl who may go home with them at the end of the night, spend the rest of the night with them until closing time, then try have sex with them after they leave the club.
[–]dry-foo 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link
I understand your point. Maybe that's the thing in some cultures. However in some cultures if a girl doesn't want to kiss you in public she will definitely not want to have sex with you in private.
I agree with the point that one should maximize the number of lays, not the number of girls kissed in public so it makes sense.
Some dating coaches say that you really don't need to kiss the girl before taking her home to succeed later.
[–]TheSunshineMan 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link
I never try to kiss a girl in public, if a girl tries to kiss me.. I'll avoid it, maybe go in and suck on and bite her neck for a few seconds, then push her away, and bump up the escalation to pretty much everything except kissing or fingering or rubbing their pussy in public.
This still gives her the "plausible deniability" for herself and what she tells her friends the next day if you have sex.
If she goes back to your place without kissing first.. it's easier for her to convince herself that "it just happened"
I already kissed him, he definitely wants sex, and I can't deny that away as easily.
[–]dry-foo 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link
I think that makes sense. It also sounds like you have the upper hand and you're not needy / pushy about it.
If her friends are around kissing could get a lot of bad attention and maybe even her friends dragging her away.
Do you always have to escalate in any other ways in public before taking her home? I mean that it's weird to get physical at my apartment if I haven't escalated in any way before that. That has happened to me many times. I've had problems with having a platonic conversation and little to none physical escalation with the girl. Then taking her to my place I feel like we're "cold" and I have to start from scratch. Kissing her and carrying her to my bed would feel weird and out of place in that situation.
[–]TheSunshineMan 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link
If her friends are around kissing could get a lot of bad attention and maybe even her friends dragging her away. Yes girl faces getting judged by her friends and everyone else.
Yes girl faces getting judged by her friends and everyone else.
If you don't escalate - this is why most guys end up in the "He was cute, but didn't feel a connection or chemistry" friend zone, and you never see her again.
Escalation starts with strong intent unwavering eye contact.
Do you hug her like a shy virgin boy who's never hugged a girl before?
Or do you hug her like you've hugged hundreds/thousands of women before, and give her a solid confident hug?
Yes you should always be escalating in public.
Even when I'm doing daygame, and it's only a 2-3 minute interaction, on a good interaction I'll have touched her 5+ times.
All in subtle ways she may not have even realized.
Handshake, touch on the arm, tap on the shoulder, masculine "this guy fucks" hug at the end of the interaction if it feels appropriate.
Non sexual touching, unless it's a rare occurrence where I can tell she's open to it, and I've escalated up the ladder to that point.
You need to always break the physical touch barrier so you don't end up in the "beta no balls too much of a pussy to touch a girl friend or no fuck zone"
A girl knows whether she wants to fuck you or not within the first 2 minutes of meeting.. that's why you need to start escalating right away, within the first 2 minutes.
Even "I want to rip your fucking clothes off right here in Starbucks/the bar/club" eye contact is "escalation" .. but you should also be breaking the physical barrier as well within the first 2 minutes.
It's better to be TOO bold, than TOO much of a pussy.
This is something I have to practise to get better. But I've already moved up from never being able to touch the girl or get physical so that's already progress. Thanks a lot for your advice!
[–]Canadian-Seductioner 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Wait until you're about to finish your drinks and ask "hey do you like wine". If she says yes, ask "do you want to do a wine tasting with me". If she says yes, say "There's this really good red wine that you should really try. Let's pick up a bottle and split it at my place?". Then if she says yes, you're in.
It works best when you already have a bottle at yours so you don't have to deal with finding a place to stop at on the way.
[–]Papa_Musk 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link
Remember being rejected means not now but doesn't mean not ever.
[–]MisterShogunate 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link
You don’t need to kiss. Also, you just look for a reason for you both to go to your place or room. She already knows and will come up with some reason not to if she’s not in the mood. You have plausible deniability and you can check the temp again next time. Your job is just not be awkward about it.
> You don’t need to kis
+1 I totally agree. However it helps to release the tension and show her that you're into her. For me personally it's super scary to kiss a girl in the public because I think she is concerned of what other people think about PDA.
> you just look for a reason for you both to go to your place or room
If you're into her and she's into you then it's obvious. You don't need to come up with an excuse or lie about it. Just tell her that you want to hang out / chill at your place. If she asks why, then just tell her that you want to be with her and make out. If that's too scary for you to say then maybe make an excuse and tell that you can grab a drink / tea / coffee / watch netflix. If you have a super fancy appartment then you can maybe tell that you want to show it / your romantic patio and split a bottle of wine.
Bottom line: don't cockblock yourself with this question. Just ask her to your place. No excuses. Don't overthink it. If she's horny then she's waiting for that line for the whole date and she's not making it too difficult for you. If she's not into you then any amount of excuses to go into your place are just waste of your time.
I have had problems with the same thing. How I arrange dates usually: I ask them for a drink (beer/wine) near my place around evening (~7pm). The later, the better.
After we've finished our drinks (which usually takes about 1 hour) I'll just say her that "I live nearby. Let's go to my place" or "Wanna see my appartment and grab a beer/wine there?" or "You're super fun/cute/nice. Wanna go to my place for another round of drinks?"
I think escalating physically, going for the kiss, escalating verbally and asking her to your place are kind of separate topics. In the end they all are just tools and steps for the ultimate goal: having sex with her.
> Don’t you worry about her saying no will kill the vibe or even end the conversation
You must not worry about that. If she says no then what do you have left? Obviously she's not super into you or she's on her period or she has work tomorrow and it's late or she's not 100% sure about if she wants anything to happen or she slept 3 hours last night or any other of the 100 reasons. A clear 'no' is better than a 3 hours long date where you are anxious and waiting for the moment that will never come and blaming yourself for being a pussy. If you try to kiss her or hold her hand or ask her to your place you're already a champion. You've already done your job at that point and you should congratulate yourself for being better than 99% of the other men who aren't there trying to take her home and enjoying her attention.
Why do you even want to have a conversation with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you when your goal with that person is only to have sex with them? It's a different story if you're hanging out with a female friend who you can't afford losing your face to. But dates, if you "fail" you will never meet them again. So you don't have to be afraid.
how can I be more assertive in a non creepy way
By believing that you're doing the right thing. If you don't make the move she will be disappointed. She will think that she's not attractive or intelligent enough for you. Remember: when she has agreed to have a date with you she's already investing many hours of her precious time to you. It will take at least an hour for her to prepare for the date, maybe an hour for transportation, then the actual date. So you must make that time worthwhile for both of you.
If a 10/10 guy tells a woman that "hey you're cute" she thinks it's the best day of her life and she feels good about herself.
If a 1/10 guy tells a woman that "hey you're cute" she calls the police and thinks it's creepy.
Creepy is just a word for a particular guy that a particular girl doesn't like and doesn't feel attracted to.
Fake it till you make it. By practising you will become more comfortable with women and you can just chill out, connect with them and feel good about it without being scared of being creepy or getting rejected. Don't cockblock yourself with those negative thoughts if in the end you just want to have fun with the girls, offer them your energy and positive vibes.
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[–]Hmmoklolthisisfine 2 points3 points4 points (20 children) | Copy Link
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