How does an overly literal intellectual become a natural conversationalist?

johnnyangels · 2013-03-04T23:27:04+00:00

seriously? by talking.. to everyone. no joke. Im not expert but i have gone from mute to decent.

sexypirates · 2013-03-05T02:57:51+00:00

Ur too srs. Lolol algorithms.

After you open, make a contextual remark. Maybe something funny that happened earlier in the night. If you can't think of something, do a cold read. ("I can tell you're a troublemaker" "What? Why?" "insert something archer would say"). Establish a role for both of you and get into it. Make it fun and interesting. Have an opinion, but don't talk about religion or politics.

Or math.

And don't ever talk about how smart you are. Trust me, it's boring to listen to.

recyclablebantha · 2013-03-05T03:44:51+00:00

And by 'conversationalist' I'm not referring simply to one who understands the fundamentals of carrying an intellectually stimulating conversation with threading, questions about other parties, and the like. That's a fairly easy set of algorithms.

Oh boy. This is the problem right here. You're talking zeros and ones..... logic. But honestly, fun reactions, especially fun reactions with girls are not logical. They involve feelings in some way.

The sexually charged conversations one has with women in order to build emotional rapport are obviously very different from those one would have at a cocktail party. The trouble is that this kind of interaction is utterly alien to me.

Do you have feelings? Then this is not so alien to you. Not when you break it down. You are not a robot. Are you?

When I spot an attractive woman at a club, I'm not thinking to myself "I want to engage in repartée with her for about 15 minutes before taking her back to place and shagging her senseless".

And the guy who picks up on that woman doesn't think that either.

No, I want to shag her senseless immediately. I see the conversation as a mind-numbing charade that I have to go through just to tick off some checkboxes on a bureaucrat's form. And no, I don't see women this way all the time. Only at clubs, where I don't really have a chance to get to know them much better than their looks (because of the deafening music) and where they rarely seem interested in the "getting to know you" phase.

Whoa whoa whoa. Everything you've said here shows to me that you should really consider yourself starting over at square one, in some ways. You have confidence apparently, and that'll serve you. A few points.

Most people want sex at some time. You're not unique in wanting to shag. What you're failing to fit into your computations are the feelings involved for other parties that sometimes complicate matters and make it something other than a straight line to the bedroom.
Conversation is not a mind-numbing charade or a bureaucratic form. If you feel this way, I honestly feel sorry for you because such a view has stripped so much color out of the world for you. Conversation can be a fun game. It can be foreplay. It can be many things. But if you've reduced it to being a charade or something boring, then people are going to pick that vibe off from you.....
The deafening music you refer to actually provides you with an opportunity to utilize non-verbal means. Few people can actually talk at a club but that doesn't stop people from making out with strangers or leaving with them. Think about that. People can tell you more about themselves than you seem to realize, WITHOUT words. And you're not listening, apparently. I guess because you're preoccupied with yourself. Which will be apparent to others around you in a club. Including the girls you might want to pick up on.
People may not be interested in the way YOU are coming at them, but strangers meet and have a good time EVERY time you've been at the club. It's not that they aren't interested in "getting to know you". It's that they're not interested in the way you're going about it.

The other day I approached a girl at a department store, and things went well for the first two minutes until my overly literal mind kicked in and I stopped being funny (ran out of canned jokes). She asked me my opinion on what colour a shirt was, and I deadpanned with "a mixture of navy blue and charcoal black". That was a prime opportunity to respond with something wittier, something that would make her laugh, and I came up with that line of brilliance.

You may have started off well. Especially if she was bantering with you in such a way that she was asking your opinion about some item of clothing. (I.E., she was involving you in her shopping.)

But what she asked was not your scientific analysis about the appearance of the shirt. Which you seem to realize. She asked your OPINION. And you gave her a FACT because you let it rattle you that the conversation was moving outside of your comfort zone (e.g., away from the planned environment of canned lines). She was likely comfortable until you showcased your true discomfort here.

But this appears to be apparent to you. So I'll move on.

I'm guessing that I need to get into a very different mindset. Have any of you made the transition from a borderline-autistic nerd who cannot stop thinking about ideas and models (of the abstract kind) to a person who is able to have natural conversations with women, full of witty banter?

You're over-fantasizing this and making it more complicated than it needs to be. The main problem I see is that you've got that mind of yours so focused on YOURSELF rather than on feelings (yours, hers.....and feelings that all people have in common in everyday life situations), or the information that any girl is giving you throughout the interaction; they'll tell you want you want to know or how to continue. If you're listening.

Natural conversations often flow from sharing a moment with someone. Commenting on one of those things we have in common in everyday situations, for example. And then you see where it goes. Focus on THEM. How they feel about something. What they think. They will give you the information you need to know how to proceed with the conversation, etc. If you find yourself doing most of the talking, you're talking too much.

You're smart so I'm sure you'll figure out a way to slip in witty banter. But the foundation has to be there first.

TL;DR: You're over-thinking. And overlooking feelings and the simple things. For your particular blind spot, I'd recommend checking out something from David Wygant. Here's a two parter where he goes over some concepts you might find interesting. (Part 1) & (Part 2

EDIT: Clarified a few things. Formatting.

Antoak · 2013-03-04T23:53:05+00:00

I'm guessing your over-intellectual stuff is coming across as affected and not really sincere. Like, you only allow yourself to be seen as a brilliant guy who won't allow himself silly pleasures because you're afraid of what people would think, but its coming across as being pretentious.

The fact that you are only willing to use canned jokes rather than make spontaneous jokes reinforces the assumption that you're not willing to risk being vulnerable in front of others because of how people might judge you. With canned openers you can say, 'oh they were just rejecting that specific set of words'.

wheredidyoufind · 2013-03-05T00:46:08+00:00

the key is eye contact. it's not as much about what you say as HOW you say it. You can talk about the most asinine thing in the world, but if you seduce her with your eyes it doesn't even matter

Roaaarr · 2013-03-06T03:16:23+00:00

It seems that you look for being funnier in your conversations, so here is my practical advice: watch some stand-up comedy consistently, maybe once a day for a fair amount of time. You'll get the vibe of it.

I'll tell you what it did to me. I'm a rather natural playfull conversationalist with women. Some years ago I happened to like more and more some stand-up comedians, so was watching a lot of their performances just for entertainment, and not for the sake of improving my conversational skills in which I was confident enough. Yet, I improved a lot without noticing. My body language got better, my story telling got better, my ability to make funny remarks got better. In brief I got funnier overall. At some point, some people told me I should become a comedian myself.

Interesting fact: after having stopped watching those shows for over a year, I lost a bit of my comedian type communication.

General_Awesome · 2013-03-05T03:17:43+00:00

[permanently deleted]

zestimochaz · 2013-03-05T00:13:35+00:00

i think that you think that you are a intellectual person so you convey that. This is okay. I know because I think the same thing. My situation lacks problems because I approach women with I am fun/interesting/exciting to be around in my mind and therefore convey that instead.

Just be honest with what your current frame is and decide whether you need to shift your tone a bit so that what you are feeling on the inside is what you're giving off on the outside.

accumben · 2013-03-05T12:49:39+00:00

Good question!

Meet ladies who would either like to get laid straight away or those who you actually want to have a conversation with. Unfortunately this may be easier said that done and this advice is better used by females because places where you can meet such ladies have an already high male population, such as online. Although it's not that simple for females either, I've experienced that most 'borderline-autistic nerds' are drooling over the HB9 at the club and turning their noses up at tomboy little me sitting here in ventrillo, playing Dota. BUT I use abundance mentality as there are so many guys and I would be a hypocrite to say I'm also rejecting my fair share.

But maybe approach as many sets as possible, spew out your concepts and symbols until someone bites.

As a rule, I no longer force myself to make boring small talk. But I couldn't just go bang someone without talking to them at all. Sounds good in theory, but in practice, it fails! Would you feel awkward if you did that? Is this something guys fantasize about, or would they actually prefer it? So I just find people who are interesting to talk to but we are free to leave if one of us gets bored. But I find these people online, then meet them in person somewhere public. This appears to be bad advice compared to the 'fake it until you make it' stuff on this subreddit, but this is what worked for me. But keep in mind, I am a nerdy female, which appears to be the minority here.

As for witty banter, I'd suggest trying not to worry about it. You might find that your perfectly logical statement is hilarious to someone else. If they laugh, awesome - depending on how seriously you take yourself. But if they don't, who cares because it wasn't meant to be a joke. One example is my explaining to people that I only wash my hands after pissing to obey some unwritten social rule that 'thou shalt wash hand after loo'. Some people found this funny, some don't really care about my random observation and others, who I wouldn't say it to, would find it disgusting.

So your shirt colour comment may be taken as a joke or seriously - you shouldn't be too hung up on it. She could have responded with 'you sure charcoal black? Maybe burnt toast black?' or whatever. You can thank the Big Bang Theory for making autistic like traits appear witty jokes. Many people won't know if you're joking or serious.

btw do you happen to be British or Australian?

RandianHero · 2013-03-05T20:04:07+00:00

High culture mixes well with pop culture. The best and funniest interactions I've had have been when I applied something intellectual to everyday observations or some current event. It shows that you're not only well-educated, but that you're also a man of the world.

And really, you need to learn to enjoy the banter. That right there is a huge part of being good with women. If you're just checking off boxes, you're going to have a shitty time and people are going to pick up on it through your body language. Even conversations with dumb or blue collar people can be entertaining if you put them in the right context.

Title	How does an overly literal intellectual become a natural conversationalist?
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	11
Comments	21
Date	March 4, 2013 9:39 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/19nv7j/how_does_an_overly_literal_intellectual_become_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/how-does-an-overly-literal-intellectual-become-a.1348366 https://theredarchive.com/post/1348366

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