I hate that this stuff works so well.

puaCurveBall · 2012-02-01T16:37:02+00:00

You have a really harmful mindset starting to form here.

My question is why do girls want to be mistreated?

They don't! They do however want values from a guy that can sometimes result in the guy mistreating them. This is a really key difference.

When I don't give a rat's ass about a girl and am just awesome, she comes to me.

Because you are subcomminicating that you don't care about outcome, which means you have other options, which means you are high value and a prize.

I stopped doing the nice stuff

Stop using the word nice and start using "supplicating". Women know deep down if they can walk all over you then so will other people when you are in charge of protecting her children. They need to know you are a strong man.

Think more about what you are communicating when you do "nice" stuff.

2012-02-01T17:24:12+00:00

I was more the "awkward dork who can't talk to women period" than the "treats her wonderfully and fails" kind of guy. But nonetheless...

Treating someone like a queen, in this context, is just manipulation. To get in her pants, to make her a gf, whatever.

Treating someone like a person involves joking with them, teasing them, challenging them, and not agreeing with everything they say. Or giving them a free pass on everything they do.

So, it makes sense that women like that. Do you enjoy friends who agree with you on everything and act servile? No.

frogma · 2012-02-01T16:36:18+00:00

Main thing is that nobody needs (or wants- but some don't realize it for a while) a significant other who waits on them hand-and-foot. Taken too far, it can be extremely off-putting. And that's a significant other- that's not some random person you just met.

A high-value person wants to be with another high-value person. A high-value person can do their own thing and doesn't depend on other people for validation. To fit it into this context, a high-value guy is secure enough to know he loves his girl and she loves him. An insecure guy needs to constantly reiterate it and show it in every way possible. To fit it into the context of meeting a new girl, a high-value guy is self-confident; he doesn't need to do extra shit to try to land the girl. The insecure guy doesn't have as much self-confidence (if any), so his way of showing interest is to give "gifts," whether they're tangible or coming in the form of ass-kissing (it can be genuine as hell, but from an attractive girl's perspective, good luck getting her to believe that). The insecure guy is simultaneously afraid to show sexual interest, so even if the girl does appreciate him and shit, she's never gonna go to bed with him because he never attempts to make it happen in the first place (or his attempts are awkward/shitty due to lack of experience and insecurity).

So, what can you do to avoid giving off the "insecure" ass-kisser vibe? Don't be an ass-kisser and at least try to do some things that show self-confidence. There's a whole shitload of ways to show "confidence," ranging from little body language habits, to flirting/teasing/conversation, to displaying blatant, unapologetic sexual interest.

So some seduction techniques are based on all the things I just mentioned. Many techniques are also based on basic psychology. You don't need to be a cat to be susceptible to cat-string (push/pull) theory. You don't need to be a dog to be susceptible to conditioning. You don't need to be insecure to enjoy teasing (in fact, socially-adept girls are much better at handling teasing and have much more fun with it). And you don't need to be a dumbass to be susceptible to reverse psychology/plausible deniability/things like that.

So if you have some basic knowledge of those concepts and how to use them in social situations, you can make them work for you. And you don't need to be a manipulating jackass in order to use them, though you certainly can be if that's your prerogative.

Edit: Regarding the first paragraph, think of it like you're dealing with a celebrity. Does the celebrity want a constant barrage of super-fans who just kiss their ass? Maybe sometimes, especially right when they start gaining fame, but usually they just want to be able to have normal conversations with people and be treated normally. Especially if it's with someone they might end up dating.

2012-02-01T17:21:12+00:00

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PostOrganic · 2012-02-01T17:05:09+00:00

It's because getting treated like a queen is boring. Lol as funny as that sounds when you do this you make her feel like she can do better. I believe that everyone can enjoy a challenge to some degree. When you are too nice to her its like the challenge is gone. You have left yourself on a silver platter. yes it is way easier to receive something, however people enjoy working for something way more. Don't get me wrong women enjoy the random good gestures, but only once in awhile.

I hope this helps.

BurnerSkunk · 2012-02-01T17:30:05+00:00

I treat women like they are a Queen and I never mistreat them, and it works great.

The difference between me and most guys is that I also make sure that they are also treating me like a King.

Jagerrr · 2012-02-02T02:01:19+00:00

Let's be real here: Women do like nice guys. They don't like weak guys. Pick-up tells you to stop being a nice guy because your idea about being nice is wrong. You're being weak too much.

Still, will she take an honest and giving person over a dick, granted both attract her? Definitely.

Remember, most women think bitchey girls get all the guys. Look it up, there's even a book with that title. So a better question to ask yourself now is: Why do guys like bitches?

2012-02-01T16:47:10+00:00

It works because you're showing the real and best parts of your personality. Let's be frank, at the end of the day you're not some high pitched ass kisser who tries to weasel a woman into bed with compliments and flattery, that's just what social conditioning told you gets girls. It's just a false sense of self, the real you is much more dynamic and utilizes a whole gradient of emotions and feelings, not just flattery, and the real you doesn't bend over backwards to flatter people into sex, which is what a good chunk of AFCs and myself were doing until we we learned something better.

Also, consider the woman's side of the story. From puberty, and sometimes sooner, girls have been getting hit on constantly, and not always from good willed individuals either. Basically, from age 12 a girl has to deal with legions of creepers, weird dudes looking at her, chodes trying to be super positive and complimentery to "earn" sex with her, guys pretending to be "alpha" to trick her into sex, guys pretending to be her friend with the hopes of sneaking into an LTR, guys that want to score with her to add to their numbers, I could go on. This isn't just the 10s either, 6s 7s, nerd girls, they all have this.

So when you're being real and you're being yourself, the you that doesn't bend over backwards for every girl just because they have breasts, and the interest you're expressing is genuine and not neediness, it's like having walked through the snow every day for 5 years and then finally the snow melts and you get to see the flowers.

Any pick up stuff that works is because it's showing a part of your personality that you have naturally that isn't trying to win a girl over. Remember the old theory behind "negs?" The idea was part of the reason they'd work is because a guy trying to weasel his way into her pants wouldn't neg her, he'd try to be super positive or faux alpha. But what if you talked to a girl without any agenda, and you talked to her just because you thought she was cute? Chances are you'd neg her naturally, just like how you tease your guy friends and so on.

Just for clarification, I'm not talking about you personally, I'm talking to a mindset that a lot of us had pre-pua, as well as adressing myself from two years ago :P.

Tl;dr that chode stuff isn't who you are and its fake, thats why it doesnt work and women dont respond to it.

HelloColey · 2012-02-01T16:40:55+00:00

The best answer I can think of for this question is that the average girl is chocked full of insecurities and her overall belief about herself is that she just isn't "enough". So when a nice guy comes along and treats her like she hung the moon, she wonders what is wrong with him for thinking she is so great because she certainly does not think this about herself. On the other hand, when a guy ignores her or doesn't treat her like a queen, that feels more comfortable and familiar to her. And on a side note, usually the girls who are the "hottest" (the ones who are always dressed up, full make-up, full hair) are the most insecure.

BCgirlsarehawt · 2012-02-02T02:53:57+00:00

I think that you have a wrong perspective on what is considered "mistreating women." This stuff works because it's not about mistreating women, it has nothing to do with them, it's all about how you present yourself and how you act, but the focus is on you, and perhaps how women perceive you, not how you treat women. When women feel attraction, it's not because they've been insulted or feel like the guy is treating them disrespectfully; the feel attraction because they like the way the other person is behaving and presenting himself.

glassuser · 2012-02-01T23:02:15+00:00

My question is why do girls want to be mistreated? Why do these approaches work?

They don't. What they want is someone who is not like the supplicating guys who put her on a pedestal and make her uncomfortable with the huge gap between her self-worth and how you treat her. The only noticable visible guys who do not do that are the jackasses who treat her like dirt, so that's what people assume works. You might assume that the correlation is causation (being a jerk gets you women) but that's not it.

Being a man who is secure in his drive and passion and actively leads his life and those coming along for his life is what really draws women. THAT will fill their needs to find excitement, mental and emotional stimulation, leadership, and protection. And you don't even have to be a jerk about it.

puppy22 · 2012-02-02T00:48:24+00:00

I have the same issue... and I solved it.

I got a girlfriend.

guyguides · 2012-02-02T08:48:40+00:00

Girls do not want to be mistreated. They want to be attracted.

counter-example: early on, I tried negging a lot/being an asshole. did NOT work for me because I'm normally a nice guy (some call this being incongruent).

What worked: being the same "nice guy" but more direct and take on more conversational risks. No assholin' around. And I did tons better.

You can still be that nice guy. Just be the nice guy with and edge.

ymrhawk · 2012-02-02T16:09:30+00:00

The first thing you have to ask yourself is who painted this ideal world you speak of and for what reason? If you dig far enough you will realize that people will always say one and yet mean the another. Usually this is because it meets their own interests or agenda and not yours. You will be a happier person once you finally lose that faith you have in humanity.

Dojavido · 2012-02-01T19:30:34+00:00

Be nice through your actions, not your words.

vazuzela · 2012-02-01T21:57:51+00:00

Let me guess: You like women. You like treating them well and doing things for them. Except the ones who are interested in you.

Nobody consciously likes being mistreated.

Long story short: people are wired on such a way, that they value something easy to obtain less than something difficult to obtain. This happens on an emotional rather than on a conscious level, so one can not overwrite it with reasoning. This explains a lot of other things in the wold too.

2012-02-01T23:44:13+00:00

What do you mean it works? what works? negging? teasing? approaching? be more specific please.

malcolmthetenth · 2012-02-02T08:37:24+00:00

The answer to that is there are some very genuinely nice girls, who are good people. Though they are rare.

Title	I hate that this stuff works so well.
Author	LawnmowerMane
Upvotes	19
Comments	34
Date	February 1, 2012 4:11 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/p68t9/i_hate_that_this_stuff_works_so_well/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/i-hate-that-this-stuff-works-so-well.1327729 https://theredarchive.com/post/1327729

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