Neediness vs. Persistence

henrywalden · 2014-02-06T23:15:25+00:00

Understanding Neediness.

There have been a number of discussions on the forums in recent weeks on the subject of neediness. In my book, I formulate a theory that defines non-neediness as the source of all attractive behavior in men. Unfortunately, I think some readers (judging by the threads on the board) are making one of two mistakes: 1) misunderstanding what non-neediness is and how to attain it and 2) trying to use it as yet another measuring stick for success (i.e., treating it as yet another “magic pill” for their problems — I will get into the ironies of this in a minute).

In Models, I define neediness within romantic and social relationships as prioritizing another person’s perception of you over your perception of yourself, and that this prioritization leads to all unattractive behavior in men, whether directly or indirectly. So, when talking to an attractive woman, a needy man will expend his effort trying to piece together what her perception of him is and cater his behavior to what he thinks she wants, whereas a non-needy man will focus on what his perception of her is. If she thinks poorly of him, it will only affect him as much as he perceives her opinion as being valuable.

There are two ways in which men can become needy: by undervaluing themselves or by overvaluing the person with whom they’re interacting.

http://markmanson.net/understanding-neediness

Corrsta · 2014-02-06T21:29:48+00:00

The important thing is to expect nothing in return.

In case she has rejected you and you still see her in real-life, tell her that she looks really hot today, but don't look at her to see if she likes your compliment, don't expect anything. Just drop it in the conversations, maybe whisper it in her ear, and move on with the conversation.

If she has rejected you but you don't see her normally, there are some text that you can send such as: "Just walked up to someone in the city that looked like you, jumped in front of her and shouted hello! It wasn't you, embarassinggg...". Again as here, you're not asking for anything, don't expect anything in return. If you see a hot facebook photo of her, write her that she looks super hot in that facebook photo. But write just that and nothing else, don't ask her how she is doing in the next message. You are only allowed to do so, if she writes you back.

At all times, joke with her, tease her (very important), make it clear to her that you would f*** her brains out at anytime, but don't ever be angry, because that's neediness.

Hope that helped.

Coz7 · 2014-02-06T22:29:37+00:00

I think neediness is more about inner game. Forget if you come off as needy or not, worry about BEING needy. That is, don't be needy, make your emotions independent on the outcome, or you risk depression.

What you want to know is when to stop hitting on a girl; from my experience, you need to look for cues, if she tells or acts like she wants you to stop but does not gives you cues that you should stop, then don't. For example, if you're touching her and she laughs, says 'stop' but doesn't do any physical action like moving herself or you away from her, and keeps laughing she doesn't wants you to stop; same goes in the case where she just ignores your actions, just keep going until she gives a clear stop signal. Sadly, girls give ambiguous message on purpose.

When you get the slightest cue that she really wants you to stop, just stop. You'll just hurt your changes by pushing that route.

Specificly for flakes, if they do want to meet you, they'll suggest new plans the moment they flake. If she just flakes, she just isn't motivated enough. If she, instead, flakes and tells you that she'll be busy for the next two weeks or something, that means she really doesn't wants to. Of course this is not black and white, more like a rule of thumb.

About being a nice guy, there's no reason you can't be nice while not being a push over. A push over is someone that lets others take advantage of him. People tease you, or take advantage of you, and you do not react to that, then you're being a push over. For example, if you are doing something, maybe reading in your room, and someone needs help, so you stop doing what you're doing to help, yet when the roles are reversed the other person does not do the same for you, you're being screwed.

That being said, the thing about being nice is that, you're putting yourself in a specific position, for free. You're saying "I'm the guy that can help you do X thing", and if you're that guy, it's easier for her to have someone else be the guy she fucks. After all, if shit hits the fan after you two fuck, who's going to help her? and she could just go with a guy who has high value (but you have low value because you give yourself away for free, economics 101, demand and offer ) gets her panties wet, because that's how she knows that's a great guy to be fucked by.

So you can be nice. I like being nice too; but know that the moment you give yourself away for free, your value goes to the floor, and her vagina will be as dry as the sahara. It's sad, but true. So it's an exclusive choice.

catgloves · 2014-02-07T00:16:55+00:00

In short, I think neediness is trying to appeal to someone else while persistence is doing something for yourself. Its a different mindset and a different attitude about how you handle yourself.

Northernwinter · 2014-02-07T00:51:59+00:00

Mindset. If you feel like it's needy, or you're worried about it being construed as needy, then it is needy.

leitey · 2014-02-07T21:04:57+00:00

Let me clarify this. Flaking is rude. If you make plans for a date, you need to keep them. If an emergency arises, and you need to cancel, you make it up to the person. Ultimately, it is up to you to determine how you are treated. So she flakes, you deserve to be treated better, you walk away.
That said, you don't burn bridges. You can still shoot her a message when you are going out with your friends, or something where it doesn't matter if she shows up or not. You are staying on her radar, planting that seed. Maybe she'll come out sometime, and you can show her how awesome and fun you are, or maybe she'll bring a cute friend and you can work on that. She flaked on you, so don't deal with that, let her come to you, or just be a friend.

puaCurveBall · 2014-02-06T21:51:04+00:00

Neediness comes from investment, and caring about the outcome.

You can be persistent without caring about the outcome.

For instance, lets say some coworker owes you $1. You can pester him day after day, asking "Hey, where is my dollar". And you still don't care about the dollar. If he tells you he isn't actually paying, then its over.

Same thing with women.

Regarding being yourself, it is all attitude. If she wants a favor, fuck with her a bit of push/pull, and then let it clear you are doing it for whatever reason.

Also... "testament to your character" is ego bullshit, imho. bad thinking.

bl1y · 2014-02-06T20:00:26+00:00

and the other half suggests I try again because I won't get anywhere without persistence.

Show me this advice.

ItsNotAScam · 2014-02-06T18:37:04+00:00

You're really just caught up in the lingo here.

What you want to be is relentless and unwilling to take no for an answer, if that's helpful at all.

If a girl isn't answering your calls, you basically have nothing to lose as you have already "lost" her. Might as well do anything you can to maximize outcome at that point.

Title	Neediness vs. Persistence
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	51
Comments	39
Date	February 6, 2014 6:33 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/1x76ez/neediness_vs_persistence/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/neediness-vs-persistence.1365595 https://theredarchive.com/post/1365595

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