Hermione Shills HeForSheit at UN

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I just went over the HeForShe "Action Kit": http://az668017.vo.msecnd.net/sitestorage/dist/content/uploads/2014/08/HeForShe_ActionKit_English.pdf

I guess I see what you mean. It isn't to get men to do all the work, but to start doing work towards feminist goals. It calls for setting up organizational focal points and getting typically male oriented organizations to join up. Then making goals and schedules to meet them. Main goals being: make money for the campaign, end violence against women, end pay inequality, and get more women in politics. This is significant activity on the part of men.

This is all a slap in the face and so men recoil from it. When has a feminist organization gone to bat for men? Most don't even acknowledge that we have inequality problems and laugh at the very concept of a men's right's movement. This is troubling not just for it's disgusting lack of empathy, but also for the implied gross negligence of statistical data. If they can't even acknowledge something as simple as the suicide gap, what other squirrels are in their head with regards to their own oppression?
As far as I can tell the only real inequalities faced by women in the west are political representation, and isolated incidence of minor pay gap (while also enjoying a pay surpluss in other fields). Meanwhile the list for men goes on and on. Selective service, majority homeless, majority prison representation, majority rape victims, treatment during domestic violence situations, minority disease funding, accepted male genital mutilation and just about every single aspect of family court. If any party should be joining the other in solidarity, it is women joining men. SheForHe. Fat chance of seeing that.

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[–]mochacola 6 points7 points8 points 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

"I want men to take up this mantle. So their daughters, sisters and mothers can be free from prejudice but also so that their sons have permission to be vulnerable and human too—reclaim those parts of themselves they abandoned and in doing so be a more true and complete version of themselves."

It's very sneaky. In one sweep, it accuses men of having prejudice against women. And boys as defects that need to get rid of "toxic masculinity" to be human. While women are humans and need their rights.

See, this is for younger babies, middle schoolers, so they have to sell it differently. Feminism in college academia and funded organizations is the real Marc Jacobs line. The social network crowd and media is the easy consumable, watered down Marc by Marc Jacobs line, and HeForShe is their 'Little Marc Jacobs' line to get younger ones to be fan of the brand. You think a brand new campaign has the power to lobby to speak in front of UN? How big do you think MRA need to get, to lobby for Ryan Gosling speaking for men's rights in front of UN?

[–]chocoboat -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

She said those things immediately after talking about how fathers are treated as less important than mothers in today's society, how men suffer from mental illness and refuse to get help because they feel they need to look tough in front of others, and how suicide disproportionately affects men.

She's asking men to join the cause of supporting equality, so that not only women are free from having to deal with the harm of having gender roles forced on them, but men will be freed from it too.

You're misunderstanding her. She said SOCIETY has prejudice against women... and that it has prejudice against men too. She was saying that without gender roles, toxic masculinity (such as refusing to get mental health care in order to keep up appearances in front of others, which can lead to suicide) would stop being a problem.

[–]mochacola 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

She said those things immediately after talking about how fathers are treated as less important than mothers in today's society, how men suffer from mental illness and refuse to get help because they feel they need to look tough in front of others, and how suicide disproportionately affects men.

You really have no idea how marketing works. She said those because words are getting out that these are real issues, and they are blaming all these back to men, by saying it is because men have not yet learn how to be in touch with their human side that these problems exists. Basically, "patriarchy hurts men too" because of "toxic masculinity", sold to babies. Because if these issues are real, the entire "patriarchy" narrative of male oppression, is false. How she started her speech was clear indication of marketing, to get people to drop their guards on what she is going to say. No different than some guy selling a get rich scam will start off by saying, "This is not another get rich scam"

Look, I believe she has good intentions, but that does not mean she knows what she is into or how she is being used.

Study China's Cultural revolution where many, many young men and women, especially women, thought they were trying to progress their country to a modern era by ridding traditional outdated ideas. It was a disaster, where kids would persecute their mentors, teachers, and even send their own loving parents to reform camp. It almost destroyed China entirely. Study that and you will see the parallel, but in this case, men are being persecuted.

SOCIETY has prejudice against women... and that it has prejudice against men too.

Again, that is the rhetoric of "patriarchy hurts men too". You are not seeing it. Boys are getting worse off with this idea. Ever since feminist movement start insisting boys express like girls, there's huge explosion of boys on meds, like Ritalin to counter typical boy behavior. Problems are solved by addressing real issues, by looking at truths, science, not by making up unproven hypothesis and then do social experiments on it.

[–]BookOfGQuan 3 points4 points5 points 10 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]chocoboat -2 points-1 points0 points 10 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Are you talking about this speech, or a different one?

But what stood out for me the most was that only 30 per cent of her audience were male. How can we affect change in the world when only half of it is invited or feel welcome to participate in the conversation?

Men—I would like to take this opportunity to extend your formal invitation. Gender equality is your issue too.

Because to date, I’ve seen my father’s role as a parent being valued less by society despite my needing his presence as a child as much as my mother’s.

I’ve seen young men suffering from mental illness unable to ask for help for fear it would make them look less “macho”—in fact in the UK suicide is the biggest killer of men between 20-49 years of age; eclipsing road accidents, cancer and coronary heart disease. I’ve seen men made fragile and insecure by a distorted sense of what constitutes male success. Men don’t have the benefits of equality either.

We don’t often talk about men being imprisoned by gender stereotypes but I can see that that they are and that when they are free, things will change for women as a natural consequence.

If men don’t have to be aggressive in order to be accepted women won’t feel compelled to be submissive. If men don’t have to control, women won’t have to be controlled.

Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong… It is time that we all perceive gender on a spectrum not as two opposing sets of ideals.

I'm not really seeing the gynocentric man-bashing here.

[–]mochacola 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But what stood out for me the most was that only 30 per cent of her audience were male. How can we affect change in the world when only half of it is invited or feel welcome to participate in the conversation?

Who are the task force fighting sex trafficking? Mostly men. While feminist movement is still going against legalizing prostitution, who are the ones saying "Enough is enough, we can't lock these victims up as criminals, we need to work around the laws more creatively."? Mostly men.

Men—I would like to take this opportunity to extend your formal invitation. Gender equality is your issue too.

No, when fathers are denied of their kids. Women who get paid the same screaming to close wage gap is a waste of everyone's time. Fatherless homes need to stop, women have no problem getting in STEM, nothing to do there.

Because to date, I’ve seen my father’s role as a parent being valued less by society despite my needing his presence as a child as much as my mother’s.

Then go to the feminist movement that paid you and ask them to stop messing with family law than the atrocity it already is. Don't blame it on "toxic masculinity" or "patriarchy", get your movement's leaders to stop lobbying for more biased legislations and come clean on what they had been doing to family court for 40 years.

We don’t often talk about men being imprisoned by gender stereotypes but I can see that that they are and that when they are free, things will change for women as a natural consequence.

We are free. Except we are not free to see our kids. We are not free have legal rights when accused by women in college. We do not need to act like women to be free. We just need feminist movement to die to be free.

If men don’t have to be aggressive in order to be accepted women won’t feel compelled to be submissive. If men don’t have to control, women won’t have to be controlled.

My grandpas never felt the need to control my grandparents into submission. My dad neither. This is just b.s.

Both men and women should feel free to be sensitive. Both men and women should feel free to be strong… It is time that we all perceive gender on a spectrum not as two opposing sets of ideals.

Men and women are just different. Men should be men, women should be women. Feminist movement had told women to be more like men, and women are now less happy. There is nothing stopping women to be as successful as men and there's nothing stopping men to be compassionate, empathic, to be, you know ... human.

[–]chocoboat -1 points0 points1 point 10 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]mochacola 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't see how this is relevant to this topic.

She was judging men's contribution at tackling women's problems by how many men are in the audience. Not by looking at how many men are actually foot soldiers working to help victimized women. Just as many women had come forwards to support Tim Hunt stating he helped mentored them tremendously. Men are CONSTANTLY working on women's issues. It had been so, forever. Who invented birth control pills? Who invented all household machines to unburden women? Who locked up rapists?

And Emma is supporting fathers' rights.

No, she is not. She may think she is, but she is helping to recruit fembots who will support the system that is taking away father's rights. The way to support father's rights is to abolish feminist movement and then correct every wrong that movement had done for 40 years.

[–]BookOfGQuan 1 point2 points3 points 10 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

If men don’t have to be aggressive in order to be accepted women won’t feel compelled to be submissive. If men don’t have to control, women won’t have to be controlled.

Do you not see this? Classic feminist interpretation of gender. Males are controlling and females are submissive and "controlled". Oh, really? Feminist dogma as a Trojan Horse in a message of supposed actual equality that sounds oh so reasonable to the males starved of actual reason and empathy.

Plus this: "when they are free, things will change for women as a natural consequence."

It shows where the priority lies. With women. And men are hardly going to be allowed to be "free" - free from gender-based expectations and responsibilities, legally enforced in many areas - so long as women benefit from it. Men are free to be what it best serves and suits women to have them be. Real freedom means freedom - and that does not suit the gynocentric culture.

I mean, for goodness sake, it's called HeForShe. It's blatantly there in the title! If you can't see the gynocentricism when it's blatantly there in your face, on full display, then that's a sign of just how ingrained in men this mentality is. Instead of calling them out on their attitudes and assumptions, you're just going to buy into their latest spin and take your place as a "good man", rewarded with some concessions to your feelings and problems - so long as you, and they, don't challenge the place of women, of course. Or dare to punch above your station, dare to suggest that mens' problems come from the very same gynocentric feminist structures you're expected to accept. Or dare to suggest the automatic and primary response to an issue shouldn't be "how does it affect the women?"

A final point: you don't compromise with the old system, you replace it. As feelers start being extended, and bones start being thrown, and the common approach changes from "men don't have problems and should shut up" to "men have problems too and can have a seat at our table", you don't offer thankful relief and happily sit down in the place at their table that they magnanimously let you have. You keep asserting reason and truth and ethics until their way crumbles and everyone is sitting at your table. Otherwise all it takes is concession and the occasional gift and resistance is nullified - and you eternally revolve around a feminist discourse. We are not inserting into that discourse - this is a separate discourse that is also a better one.

[–]chocoboat 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]BookOfGQuan 0 points1 point2 points 10 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

How on earth is the speech distinct from everything else about the group and what it does? The speech is promoting the movement and everything about it. If it somehow isn't, if you claim it is removed from the wider campaign, then it's an utterly useless speech and irrelevant one way or the other, isn't it?

And I feel I should clarify that I agree that an end to imposed gender roles - prescriptive gender roles - is desirable. The point is that despite its mendacious claims to the contrary, this speech and this campaign do not do that at all, or else do so very selectively and incompletely and in fact depend upon/reinforce the more harmful of those roles and assumptions, particularly as they relate to males and what males can expect from it (most simply: utility status, their needs secondary to the perceived good of women, the scapegoat for all evil, in need of "correction").

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Title	Hermione Shills HeForSheit at UN
Author	blacktridenttv
Upvotes	43
Comments	38
Date	July 30, 2015 10:49 AM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/3f5a57/hermione_shills_heforsheit_at_un/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/hermione-shills-heforsheit-at-un.974366 https://theredarchive.com/post/974366

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