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Spanish website takes down a documentary about domestic male abuse followed by the complaints of a group of people that referred to it as sexist.

TJMLG

September 17, 2016
378 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://imgur.com/uIrxRkR
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Post Information
Title Spanish website takes down a documentary about domestic male abuse followed by the complaints of a group of people that referred to it as sexist.
Author

TJMLG

Upvotes 378
Comments 28
Date September 17, 2016 9:16 AM UTC
(9 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/536jzu/spanish_website_takes_down_a_documentary_about/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/spanish-website-takes-down-a-documentary-about.941459
https://theredarchive.com/post/941459
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Comments

[–]asdfgasdfg312 51 points52 points53 points 9 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Well that's like the definition of silenced... Although since they are a company that gets their paychecks from visitors I highly believed they removed the add because of crying peers, and not because they think its wrong. Its silenced nonetheless though.

[+]mwobuddy -6 points-5 points-4 points 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Freedom of speech means websites down have to put anything on there they don't want to, so if they're pressured to be silent, they can do it freely.

[–]asdfgasdfg312 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

No, freedom of speech goes straight out the window when one part has anything to do with what the other part says, thats the definition of not having freedom of speech. If they are pressured to be silent its the pure definition of not having freedom of speech. Just because you don't get put in jail doesn't mean anything, social pressure is just the same, its the part that you cant express yourself with freedom that breaks the part of freedom of speech. It even says so in the name of it.

You cant be forced to do something freely, thats not freedom. If I point a gun at your kids and tell you that you are freely allowed to take your life in any way you want or I will shoot your kids, you are not really free, your still under threat even though you have a free choice. You wouldn't really freely kill youself.

[–]GingerJack76 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Yea but how do you implement that? I want this shit to stop to, but there's no way to prevent people from doing this without forcing them to accommodate you. You can't have this level of freedom because it takes away freedom from others.

[–]asdfgasdfg312 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

By stop giving a shit what other people think. If that wouldn't have been a billion dollar industry we would have been done by now. "You can't have this level of freedom because it takes away freedom from others." What are you talking about mate? What comes out of my mouth cannot take your freedom away unless you choose to because you care about what I said, my words can in no way force you, they are shockwaves bending air around your eardrums, nothing more. Freedom of speech works because words means jack shit, they are just a way of expressing the thoughts in your head. It's impossible to get hurt from words unless you choose to do it, or indirectly you can be hurt economically like in this scenario(But its not the speech, its the act). But I think like I said before, I don't think they removed the post because they think its wrong but because they don't wanna piss of the people paying their salary. If they were to stop physically browse that page, the owners of the site would suffer.

People who try to silence other people is people who doesn't understand what language and communication is. It's not wrong to say whatever you want. It's not wrong to verbally support serial rape and Nazism and whatever, the wrong part is the thought that makes you want to do those stuff. People should be allowed to support whatever they want, if they are not allowed to say those stuff they would still think the thoughts in their heads. And they are the only persons that knows what goes on in their own head so without letting them express themselves the rest of the world would have no idea that these people have a different point of view than them and probably have to explain themselves a bit to get those views respected or changed.

Freedom of speech is oppressed as shit today, you only think it wont work because your freedom of speech is being oppressed. You don't think Kim Jong Un is all over there teaching his citizens that freedom of speech is bad and people cant handle it? That's North Korea would go under if someone said something bad about their leader etc? Even though its pretty obvious that would not happen. People still believe it and nobody is allowed to speak against it, so its a quite unanimous vote even though its flipping retarded for anyone half a cm on the side.

Also freedom of speech means that everybody is allowed to do the same thing, not just half of the population who believes in one way. Giving people freedom of speech does not take away freedom from others, everyone is allowed to say what they want. If anything it takes away the freedom for you owners to oppress you.

[–]GingerJack76 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Exactly, you cannot prevent people from canceling a deal. We're not talking about someone putting ductape over your mouth, we're talking about someone stopping a deal because of the backlash. And yes, I certainly don't care about people's opinions of me, but that doesn't mean that everyone else doesn't. We can try to make change socially, but that's all we can do.

[–]asdfgasdfg312 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Yea freedom of speech is under development just like humans, 10 years ago we had less freedom than we have now, it's about constant development. God didn't really create freedom of speech in its final release and just handed it to us. And virtually/psychologically stopping someone from talking is just as much oppressing of freedom of speech as putting duct tape over someone's mouth, the person is still not allowed to express themselves with freedom.

But once again, I don't think they removed the post because they were forced to, they removed it because they make money putting up content that their readers read. They will take down the opinions they believe in and post opinions they do not believe in, not because they really want to but because its their job to get people to want to read the article and by people reading their article they earn money to pay salaries. I could open a website where I state everything exactly as I believe, but that probably wont get as many readers as if I were to write about stuff other people want to read. Silencing someone is against freedom of speech, but writing stuff you don't believe because other people believes that and it will generate money is not against freedom of speech.

[–]GingerJack76 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And virtually/psychologically stopping someone from talking is just as much oppressing of freedom of speech as putting duct tape over someone's mouth,

I have to disagree. I think that people don't need to be paid to share their ideas. In fact it's disappointing that they didn't release the series just because of money. Morally speaking, if this mattered to them, they would have started a kickstarter or other crowd funding venture.

They will take down the opinions they believe in and post opinions they do not believe in...

Personally, I find this telling. Part of what being an artist, or writer is about, is finding ways to tell the story you want to tell while making it attractive for readers. It's a careful balance, I know. But that doesn't mean that you should sacrifice your morals or the story you want to tell just because no one wants to read it or that you won't get paid for it. I know people need to get paid, but not getting paid is not censorship. There are plenty of content creators out there willing to do these kinds of projects for free, they might not be high quality, but they are out there.

[–]cherrycheesecake 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

There is Kickstarter, which Cassie Jaye used to crowdfund her recent documentary.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

In fact, the spanish proyect "Silenciados" is a crowdfunding documentary movie. What I don't know is if it's on Kickstarter.

[–]chikedor 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It was in Verkami, but got censored and removed. Now they just have a PayPal account.

[–]Shanguerrilla 8 points9 points10 points 9 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

This one kind of stirs some emotions in me. My soon to be ex wife is from a central American country, I've never seen such counter-productive and contradicting expectations as those in her. Don't get me wrong, she had some real developmental and personality issues requiring professional help, an incredibly unsafe and damaging childhood and teenage years. BUT, for the first many years I really kept trying harder to 'be' who she seemed to lash out for me to and believed much of it was cultural and language barriers (she was ESL).

Anyway, rambled on to say that it seems like there is opposing requirements in her central american culture-- one where the woman only has any fraction of the kind of respect a human being deserves if the man is entirely possessed by machismo... But at the same time the women often enough (in her family) were who ran each family, believing to be 'strong' and unquestionable. Extremely offended if the man believes his opinion or perspective or needs could even slightly matter compared to the woman's.

I don't know, just my perspective of her and her mom, grandma, sisters, and nieces. Now her and her mom both have ran off all their baby daddies. My wife via escalating episodes of non-reciprocated violence, the last night after I walked off the third time and locked a door between us, calling and lying to police to have me falsely arrested.. But no matter what- 'she is the victim' legally and in her mind. I think to her the 'problem' in the marriage was that she sees herself and her role as only acceptable when she is unchallenged, narcissistic, strong leader of the family... while at the same time lashing out and even 'abusing' (though to her men cannot be) to try to demand or create the macho man that is the only she can respect or accept. It was such a weird dynamic. A punishable demand for a man that is perfectly subservient and impossibly defiant and masculine.

For reference she has borderline personality disorder and C-PTSD so the shit I experienced and relate to culture and such may be really all just her own mental health issues.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

The thing is that pwBPDers are incapable of conceptualizing that their behavior is bad or somehow wrong. Sure, you can draw some parallels between what other people are saying about hispanic culture to that sense of being completely in the right no matter what. But at the end of the day, your soon to be ex-wife has a brain wired to only view people in the most extreme shades of light and dark.

These relationships do not become better with time, or improve through supporting your loved one in just the right way, and nothing will change people like your wife. Slight transgressions are not met with the same indifference that a normal human beings offer. Slight transgressions that occur through time leads to 'being split all black' and viewed as no worse than Hitler.

I can introduce you to an inpatient psych-nurse of twenty+ years who has never worked with one single borderline patient who didn't manipulate and harm a loved one. This is a lose, lose situation. Get out now.

GET OUT NOW.

[–]BookOfGQuan 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Sounds sadly predictable to me. The females are playing tournament sexuality rather than pair-bonding sexuality. They're only interested in/loyal to the strongest male, and that's a changeable position.

Humans are an odd species, sexuality-wise. They're somewhere between the poles of tournament and pair-bonding models. To be blunt, a society and culture is far more stable if it prioritises and encourages the pair-bonding approach, and that should be incentivised. The cultures of "machismo" emphasise tournament behaviours, and are less stable/more violent. One of the biggest mistakes of "western" society in the last century is how we allowed the pair-bonding model to be weakened through targeted breakdown of the family, and resultant creation of ghettoes, where the tournament model is supreme.

[–]Shanguerrilla 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Haven't heard that described so targeted before, but yea man, I agree.

[–]mwobuddy -2 points-1 points0 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

BUT, for the first many years I really kept trying harder to 'be' who she seemed to lash out for me to and believed much of it was cultural and language barriers (she was ESL).

You seem pretty ESL yourself.

[–]knob_head 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Another example of femnazis at work

[–]alvirito 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Im spanish, and Spain is quite fucked up in terms of equality and feminism. I would love to see more posts about here for foreigners to know the situation.

[–]baserace 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I would love to see more posts about here for foreigners to know the situation.

Contribute those posts yourself so the rest of the movement has visibility! I already posted something about teh DV laws here: https://np.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/536jzu/spanish_website_takes_down_a_documentary_about/d7rblpb

Same for all of you out there in non-native-English speaking countries, share what's going on with men's rights in your country.

[–]splodgenessabounds 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

share what's going on with men's rights in your country

+1

Don't be put off by the fact that this subreddit (nearly all of reddit, come to that) is English-speaking and (mostly) American. We all need to hear from those who live outside the US/ english-speaking world.

[–]Musgabeen 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

http://silenciados.org/

[–]baserace 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Spain is completely fucked up in the domestic violence department, men are basically treated as guilty by accusation. Vile, vile misandry.

30 min documentary on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjgBfklmYj8

http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/government-tyranny/spanish-gender-stalinism-part-i/

[–]iddco 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

what i don't understand is that the site appears to be a crowdfunding site; if you don't like something don't fund it. Perhaps it is my inner american speaking but I feel people should be able to make films/art about any topic or in any manner they want as long as things are legal. It doesn't mean I have to watch it, agree with it, or have to enjoy it. Even if everything they were depicting was a lie, they should have the right to film it and people should have the right to decide if they want to fund it or not. Imagine if a documentary for Andrea Dworkin received the sae treatment

[–]splodgenessabounds 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

the site appears to be a crowdfunding site

It is, but only if you're "in with the In Crowd", apparently.

[–]MagicTampon 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

d

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is LITERALLY sexism, fucking disgusting that men are being silenced by the very institutions they MADE.

[–]RobDog101 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Silenced

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

5 weeks later, funding has almost tripled, to a bit under EUR 4200.

More (although in Spanish), here: http://silenciados.org/

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