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'Victimhood narrative' taught in schools fuels anxiety in young women, academic claims.

Liberal_irony

October 22, 2017
418 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/21/victimhood-narrative-taught-schools-fuels-anxiety-young-women/
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Title 'Victimhood narrative' taught in schools fuels anxiety in young women, academic claims.
Author

Liberal_irony

Upvotes 418
Comments 40
Date October 22, 2017 9:51 AM UTC
(8 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/77zdk2/victimhood_narrative_taught_in_schools_fuels/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/victimhood-narrative-taught-in-schools-fuels.912538
https://theredarchive.com/post/912538
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Comments

[–]mwobuddy 72 points73 points74 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

No shit? really? /s During the era in history where both men and women are safest, they feel more unsafe than ever. Because you shouldn't "victim blame" we teach them to stay naive children as Peterson would say, and then they can't protect themselves in case of a small minority of violence occurs, as they also cannot figure out when to stay or leave a situation.

[–]Rethgil 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

both men and women are safest, they feel more unsafe than ever.

"They".

I think you mean women, right? The issue is women making ludicrous accusations at men such as equating being " stared at" as "abuse".

Despite the evidence women are safer than ever.

Men don't treat women that way.

[–]William__F0ster 38 points39 points40 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

“I do think that there is one particular feminist narrative that seems to dominate in education,” Dr Williams told The Sunday Telegraph.

“But it is increasingly out of touch with reality. Girls are doing so much better at school than boys, and yet we are having people like The Everyday Sexism Project are coming into schools sends out a message of: ‘just you wait, there are real difficulties ahead’.”

Yet again, a message that has been coming out of this sub for years now - but which has been roundly condemned as the vile thoughts of evil women-hating misogynists and rape apologists and etc. - turns out to be a quite reasonable criticism - when said by someone else.

Speaking of which:

Janet Bloomfield Speech at ICMI16 London - How Feminism Infantilizes Women

[–]skipptomy 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminists should also be teaching young women about their own power and how they can abuse it. Instead they scream about "empowerment" while simultaneously portraying women as helpless damsels in distress. The whole thing is disgusting.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nice one. First I've seen of such a suggestion about not abusing power and its a great point. With great power comes great responsibility and all that. Yet all we've seen is feminism in particular abuse that power and demand more for them and less for men.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points26 points 8 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

You don't say!

There was a survey posted recently in twox showing that something like 20% of women without a college education think women are oppressed, but the number shot up to like 60% for women who attended college.

University faculty is being overrun with feminists who fetishize victimhood.

It's quite amazing. These women go to college where they:

  • are the majority demographic on campus

  • receive more financial aid and opportunity

  • have more resources and support (women's centers, women-only spaces)

  • benefit from a campus disciplinary system that strips men of their education simply on the accusation of one woman

and yet they leave college believing that they have it worse than slaves in the 1800's.

[–]The_Best_01 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They are brainwashing centers indeed.

[–]PM_ME_ALL_THE_BOOBIE 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The problem I have with the word "oppression" is the same I'm coming to have with "rape" and "sexual assault". It's starting to mean "I didn't get my way therefore (insert one of the above words here), and you should believe me without evidence and without question".

I'm sure oppression happens. I'm sure sexism happens. Problem is I'm not sure it happens at the rate I'm told it's happening because I don't trust a.) the definition and b.) people to interpret the definition equally.

have more resources and support (women's centers, women-only spaces)

Oh, man, you should see my sister shit and go blind when I bring up the fact that there aren't men's shelters out there and no resources for men. She wants to say that women need help? Shit, women get the overwhelming majority of help from society. They get to dodge being served papers at shelters (which only delays situations but still). Family court overwhelming supports women.

But no, they only want to talk sexism when it discriminates against women because modern feminism isn't about equality. It's about women being helpless victims and men being powerful oppressors. Note those two adjectives -- it's always the same. Women can't help it and men are in full control. This is, as far as I know, literally everything that's against first and second wave feminism. Why anyone would proudly be for modern feminism baffles me.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's a shocking statistic. Makes sense though. Universities have now become feminist echo chambers where free thought or debate is "sexist".

[–]Imnotmrabut 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Propaganda In The Helping Professions
... we tend to think that what goes through our mind must be important. Simply repeating a position increases the likelihood of its acceptance, especially if the statement is offered in a confident manner by a person of prestige and has a slogan quality that plays on our emotions. Results of a weak study may be repeated so many times in different sources (e.g., professional journals) that they (undeservedly) achieve the status of a law. Gelles (1982) calls this the Woozle Eflect. A willingness to challenge even cherished beliefs helps to combat this source of error. “If our examination of the facts leads to a conclusion which we find to be inconceivable, this need not be regarded as telling us anything about the facts, but only about the limits of our powers of conceiving” (Thouless, 1974, p. 80). Repeated affirmation, conviction, or the manner in which something is said do not provide evidence for claims.
Repetitions of a statement are more effective if they are varied; we are less likely to discover that no reasons are provided as to why we should believe or act in a certain manner (Thouless, 1974).
Eileen Gambrill (20 February 2012). Propaganda in the Helping Professions. Oxford University Press, USA. p. 316. ISBN 978-0-19-532500-3.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Scared people are easier to control.

[–]Rethgil 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Don't forget divide and conquer. I don't think the wealthiest elite mind the side effect of this that means they no longer face any meaningful united opposition from the masses because the women are at men's throats while the men are terrified of breathing wrong in case they get taken to court for it. Let's be honest.

The truly rich, old families and real bases of power remain untouched by all this rubbish. There's no fear of rape accusations for asking someone out among the top banking families or Royal house of whatever.

[–]autotldr 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 71%. (I'm a bot)


"But it is increasingly out of touch with reality. Girls are doing so much better at school than boys, and yet we are having people like The Everyday Sexism Project are coming into schools sends out a message of: 'just you wait, there are real difficulties ahead'."

Dr Williams said that this narrative of feminism is outdated since girls now consistently outperform boys at school and more women have been going on to higher education than men for the past generation.

Writing in Women vs Feminism, she said that today's dominant feminism narrative "Clearly espouses one idea above all others: that women are disadvantaged and oppressed; routine victims of everyday sexism, casual misogyny and the workings of patriarchy".


Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: women#1 Girls#2 school#3 feminism#4 Sexism#5

[+]MyOtherTagsGood -6 points-5 points-4 points 8 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

So, maybe I'm missing something. What does this topic have to do with the rights of males being violated?

[–]Zepherite 21 points22 points23 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It matters, because those children who have been told "it's shit for women when you get out of school" despite that not being true. This not only causes them to make life choices that detrimentally effect themselves and they then also assume that anything bad that happens to them is men's fault, leading to all sorts of accusations against men and initiatives to redress imbalances that never existed.

TL;DR teaching young girls all their problems are caused by the patriarchy, strips them of their agency and makes them assume men are sexist rapists who have it easy.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Furthermore, feminists use victimhood to get the better-off sex more benefits and to fight the worse-off sex's demands of equality. Victimhood is the most important political capital feminists have.

[–]IshitONcats 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because its the same narrative that is being used against men. Now it is hurting youths mental growth.

[–]Liberal_irony[S] 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I understand what you mean, but the same narrative is fuelling an anti male agenda. I just thought it worth pointing out that is not doing either gender any good.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men's issues are routinely trivialized and ignored because women are so oppressed that there just isn't a free second to discuss men's problems.

The bullshit being fed to women in universities all over the western world is one of the largest contributors to the marginalization of disadvantaged and abused men.

[–]the_dummy 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I feel like this is a legitimate question so I don't know why you're being downvoted. The same influence which tells women that they're going to be victims their whole lives tells boys that they're going to be nasty brutes. It's tangentially related but it's detrimental to development of both groups.

[–]Dancing_Anatolia 2 points3 points4 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's just because it seems like somebody posts this exact same comment on every thread, and every time we give them the same answers, because it's obvious. It just gives you a hair-trigger after a while.

[–]the_dummy 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Just because something is obvious to some people doesn't mean it's obvious to others. On top of that, who can say whether this person has seen the other threads? If this person is new to the MRM, they'll see us as a bunch of assholes and want nothing to do with us in the same way we see a lot of vocal feminists.

[–]nforne 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

N00bs have questions too, not just trolls.

It could be seen as a good sign, that the sub is growing. We should try to be more welcoming, hard as it is sometimes. The last thing we want to do is drive people away.

Maybe we should keep the answers ready so they can be copied/pasted with a link to the faqs.

[–]Imnotmrabut 5 points6 points7 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You seem to think that Mens Rights exists in a vacuum.

Maybe you need to try out living in that vacuum and see how long your errors last? P¬))

[–]AloysiusC 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If women are brainwashed into being passive victims of their (male) surroundings, how in the world do you expect men to fit into that picture let alone get any empathy?

[–]Santaball 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

This is a men's rights/anti feminism sub. Not sure why people don't seem to get that.

[–]QueefofPolice -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

Why does being pro-men's rights have to make people anti-anything? The reason people don't take MRA seriously is because people cloud the message with hate, seemingly out of nowhere.

[–]Santaball 13 points14 points15 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not hate. Just anti feminism. And virtue signaling/concern trolling doesn't really work here. I know there are a lot of feminist here and that's cool, no one minds but it is what it is. This sub is anti feminism.

[–]QueefofPolice -1 points0 points1 point 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yet, the sidebar says nothing about anti-feminism. Got it.

[–]DarthCerebroX 9 points10 points11 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Feminism isn't the enemy.

Actually, feminism and feminists have a long history of fucking over men and silencing men's issues... so yes, they kind of are the enemy..

Do you have any idea how the Men's Rights Activists that are trying to bring awareness and fix mens issues are treated by feminists?

Every time MRA's try to hold an event or conference they are protested, and threatened, censored and many times shut down. They are met with chants of "racist, sexist, anti gay- go away MRA". Even academics such as English professor at University of Ottawa, Janice Fiamengo, was trying to give a lecture about men's issues and feminists pull the fire alarm and shut the whole thing down.

They can't even bring awareness to Men's issues, much less start to address them. How can MRA's fight to fix these problems when they're not even allowed to make people aware of them!?

Another example is one I already mentioned, the way feminists have fought to keep a monopoly on the domestic violence issue. You should research Erin Pizzey . She's a women that created the very first women's shelter. After she had spent so much time with DV victims (men and women because she didn't discriminate) she learned that men were victims just as often as women, and that the abuse often went both ways. When she tried to release her findings feminists fought to censor her. They threatened her, harassed her and ran her out of the country. She went on to co-found A Voice For Men and became a strong supporter of Men's Rights issues.

This kind of behavior and pushback is the reason that there are thousands of DV shelters for women today, but only one men's shelter. And out of all the female domestic violence shelters, less than 5% are willing to take in men.

Also the Duluth Model that was created by feminists which states that DV is caused by the patriarchy giving all men power over all women. They claim that because women are the oppressed gender, it's impossible for them to be the aggressor. These ideas were made into laws that have discriminated against male victims for decades and these practices are still in use in many states today.

If you take the time to actually research the feminist movement, you might learn that feminism has harmed men and fought against men's issues a lot more that you ever imagined.

There's a reason we are anti-feminist..

EDIT: regarding feminism and domestic violence....

Even today, with all the statistics showing that men make up half of all domestic abuse victims... and that women are actually the aggressor 70% when it comes to unreciprocated violence....

.. Mainstream modern feminists continue to push these false narratives that domestic violence is a women's issue and that it's Men that are the abusers.

Katherine Spillar , director of Majority Feminist Organization and executive editor for Ms Magazine, said in her interview for the red pill movie that...

"The whole issue of domestic violence-- that's just another word really. It's a clean up word for wife beating.. because that's what it really is.

Its not girls that are beating up on boys, it's boys that are beating up on girls."

Yeah... this is coming from someone with a lot of power and influence in the feminist movement and you could argue that she is a big spokesperson for the movement...

.. And yet she has no problem denying the existence of male DV victims and painting men, and only men, as the abusers.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Modern feminism is a gigantic roadblock for men's issues. Not only do feminist organizations like NOW fight against the progress attempted by men's groups, but they monopolize public discourse (and public funding) on gender issues and use those positions of power to stifle any discussion about men's issues.

Go look at how much progress the "feminist approved" mens lib movement has made. Oh, you can't, because they're only allowed to self-flagellate as penance for being born male.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

seemingly out of nowhere.

But how can ignorant people learn about feminism if nobody points out how the lie and hate?

[–]DarthCerebroX 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

True feminism is a no true Scott fallacy. NOW, the largest feminist group in the world, national organization of women. In 2017, is still fighting against equal parenting in the case of divorce, when both parents are deemed fit. The hypocrisy and lack of awareness is astounding. They claim to want to get rid of traditional gender roles. However, once it is time for divorce and seeing who gets custody. They have exactly zero issue with pidgeon holing women into the role of child caretaker. They don't want women to be seen as primary caretakers of children. But, don't want to share custody in divorce.

That's the biggest, most mainstream feminist group in existence, and that is the stance they take. Imagine what the radicals would do if they had their way?... It would be a real fucking nightmare for guys. They would probably choose to kill most of us off.

It isn't like there is another, bigger feminist group saying that NOW has it wrong. The ones I've talked to simply can't provide an answer of how and why that is equal in divorce. They just know that's the way it should be though. It is Olympic level mental gymnastics. Feminists aren't for helping men. If they were, they'd maybe, I don't know, help men? Nope, keep pushing more scholarships on women even though they are the majority in college already. Build more homeless shelters that help women only. Even though 95% of the homeless population is male. Fund women specific diseases almost double that of men and lobby the government to do so. Even though men don't have as long of an expected lifespan. Make only womens domestic violence shelters. Even though women are abusers in about 70% of non reciprocal domestic violence.

Watch their actions and not what they claim. They say they are for equality. In practice, they are completely against it.

[–]jlevy1126 1 point2 points3 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I was having a discussion the other day that touched on organizations actually are fighting equality outright... Do you have any court cases you can cite for NOW?

[–]DarthCerebroX 6 points7 points8 points 8 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Here’s a great comment by Karen Straughan that cites many different instances. I’ll highlight the relevant NOW ones .

** Karen Straughan on the “those aren’t real feminists” argument**

The following is a very informed comment by Karen Straughan in response to a feminist who thinks the many blatant sexists among feminists aren't real feminists:

So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive, well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists".

That's not just "no true Scotsman". That's delusional self deception.

Listen, if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one.

But I want you to know. You don't matter. You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."

You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.

You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape.

You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male.

You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.

You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.

You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.

You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.

You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history."

You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.

And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers, thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based.

You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet.

[–]perplexedm 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

** Karen Straughan on the “those aren’t real feminists” argument**

Can we get her original video or article on this ?

Edit: Got that link.

Actually looking for another post on this sub by a redittor about misandrist views of top feminist leaders whose books are taught in universities.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah who cares that women fall for this bullshit victim mentality and suffer from muh anxiety. Grow up ladies.

[–]Lethn -4 points-3 points-2 points 8 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Where do you people come from?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 8 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Cut them some slack, it could have been a sincere question.

[–]Lethn 4 points5 points6 points 8 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It never is these days, just desperate people who for some reason or another are trying to dictate what we're allowed to talk about and oddly enough it isn't just feminists for once.

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