Ok so here we go

Egalitarianwhistle · 2020-04-21T19:22:31+00:00

Sounds like you have been drinking the feminist koolaid aid. Toxic masculinity is basically a slur feminists made up to demonize men. Don't believe me? Then why do they deny the existence of toxic femininity? It's a trojan horse designed to get you to accept the (unfalsifiable) Patriarchy Conjecture.

Feminists claim to fight for gender equality but tend to advocate blindly for women. (By blindly I mean without regard to secondary or tertiary side effects.)

MRA'S recognize that we will never be equal to women until we are equal before the law. Men are treated as trash in family court. In criminal court, men receive 63% longer sentences than women for same crime after adjusting for variables. Women are twice as likely as men to avoid incarceration altogether after conviction.

As for divorce, 97% of alimony goes to women.

Until we are equal before the law there's no point in talking about other issues. Of course very rich men and very rich women tend to do better in court. But for the rest of us schlubbs there is observable bias against men and in favor of women.

TehReedster89 · 2020-04-21T20:50:03+00:00

You are making the common argument, that real feminism is for equality, and if someone calls themselves a feminist but isn't for equality, they are "an extreme feminist". To that, I quote the following from Karen Straughan. It's lengthy, but I urge you to read it:

So what you're saying is that you, a commenter using a username on an internet forum are the true feminist, and the feminists actually responsible for changing the laws, writing the academic theory, teaching the courses, influencing the public policies, and the massive, well-funded feminist organizations with thousands and thousands of members all of whom call themselves feminists... they are not "real feminists".

That's not just "no true Scotsman". That's delusional self deception.

Listen, if you want to call yourself a feminist, I don't care. I've been investigating feminism for more than 9 years now, and people like you used to piss me off, because to my mind all you were doing was providing cover and ballast for the powerful political and academic feminists you claim are just jerks. And believe me, they ARE jerks. If you knew half of what I know about the things they've done under the banner of feminism, maybe you'd stop calling yourself one.

But I want you to know. You don't matter. You're not the director of the Feminist Majority Foundation and editor of Ms. Magazine, Katherine Spillar, who said of domestic violence: "Well, that's just a clean-up word for wife-beating," and went on to add that regarding male victims of dating violence, "we know it's not girls beating up boys, it's boys beating up girls."

You're not Jan Reimer, former mayor of Edmonton and long-time head of Alberta's Network of Women's Shelters, who just a few years ago refused to appear on a TV program discussing male victims of domestic violence, because for her to even show up and discuss it would lend legitimacy to the idea that they exist.

You're not Mary P Koss, who describes male victims of female rapists in her academic papers as being not rape victims because they were "ambivalent about their sexual desires" (if you don't know what that means, it's that they actually wanted it), and then went on to define them out of the definition of rape in the CDC's research because it's inappropriate to consider what happened to them rape.

You're not the National Organization for Women, and its associated legal foundations, who lobbied to replace the gender neutral federal Family Violence Prevention and Services Act of 1984 with the obscenely gendered Violence Against Women Act of 1994. The passing of that law cut male victims out of support services and legal assistance in more than 60 passages, just because they were male.

You're not the Florida chapter of the NOW, who successfully lobbied to have Governor Rick Scott veto not one, but two alimony reform bills in the last ten years, bills that had passed both houses with overwhelming bipartisan support, and were supported by more than 70% of the electorate.

You're not the feminist group in Maryland who convinced every female member of the House on both sides of the aisle to walk off the floor when a shared parenting bill came up for a vote, meaning the quorum could not be met and the bill died then and there.

You're not the feminists in Canada agitating to remove sexual assault from the normal criminal courts, into quasi-criminal courts of equity where the burden of proof would be lowered, the defendant could be compelled to testify, discovery would go both ways, and defendants would not be entitled to a public defender.

You're not Professor Elizabeth Sheehy, who wrote a book advocating that women not only have the right to murder their husbands without fear of prosecution if they make a claim of abuse, but that they have the moral responsibility to murder their husbands.

You're not the feminist legal scholars and advocates who successfully changed rape laws such that a woman's history of making multiple false allegations of rape can be excluded from evidence at trial because it's "part of her sexual history."

You're not the feminists who splattered the media with the false claim that putting your penis in a passed-out woman's mouth is "not a crime" in Oklahoma, because the prosecutor was incompetent and charged the defendant under an inappropriate statute (forcible sodomy) and the higher court refused to expand the definition of that statute beyond its intended scope when there was already a perfectly good one (sexual battery) already there. You're not the idiot feminists lying to the public and potentially putting women in Oklahoma at risk by telling potential offenders there's a "legal" way to rape them.

And you're none of the hundreds or thousands of feminist scholars, writers, thinkers, researchers, teachers and philosophers who constructed and propagate the body of bunkum theories upon which all of these atrocities are based.

You're the true feminist. Some random person on the internet.

You point out how the term should probably be changed to something gender neutral since it is ostensibly about gender equality. And I agree, but that isn't the full issue. It's not just that "feminism" sounds like something which favors women. It flat out does. It's not just a word which theoretically means "a person for gender equality". It's an actual thing, with actual organizations, making actual changes in our world. So it's silly to claim that real feminists are for gender equality, when you can factually point to official feminist organizations which get tons of funding, and successfully lobby for social reforms, but only if they benefit women. People don't say that feminism is about women only because they are annoyed by a few crazies on tumblr. They say that because it's objectively true.

trans-rights · 2020-04-21T19:24:21+00:00

Watch the movie the red pill by Cassie Jaye

ShawshankRetention · 2020-04-21T21:10:31+00:00

Sooo. You might feel at home in /r/egalitarism for the moment.

The belief in the patrarchy theory and in the original sin of masculinity is mandatory in the feminist cult. Equalitarian may be the marginal agnostics you are looking for. Yes there are groups who call themselves like that. They may not be many but each person count, so do you.

Now, if you want to discuss again on gender norms and their effects, you will be better received if you dont use loaded gendered terms like "toxic masculinity"

Also paragraphs.

Lupinfujiko · 2020-04-21T20:22:49+00:00

I outright reject the concept of toxic masculinity.

I disagree with pretty much everything you just said here.

tenchineuro · 2020-04-21T21:44:28+00:00

One more comment, wall of text, paragraph breaks are the readers friend.

shit-zen-giggles · 2020-04-22T04:59:30+00:00

what people forget is that the name stems from when this was a women’s battle and I think that erasing that name and the history behind it is technically the same as changing the lyrics of a national anthem

Which ironically feminists have demanded to be done in various countries.

Ody_ssey · 2020-04-22T05:50:53+00:00

So what rights feminism is fighting for which women in 1st world countries don't have?

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2020-04-22T11:53:16+00:00

So instead of discussing real problems just blame everything on toxic masculinity and then get back to being good allies. If we do that we might get a good boy point!

trash62 · 2020-04-21T19:50:29+00:00

Feminism is a supremacy movement that pretends to be about equality.

There never was a patriarchy, that is a conspiracy theory that's easily disproven.

Feminism is about dividing people along gender (and increasingly racial) lines, and then pretending to be concerned with equality.

tenchineuro · 2020-04-21T19:53:21+00:00

the only thing I find hard to grasp here is that this is just a feminist group for men

Time for the regularly scheduled concern troll.

Title	Ok so here we go
Author	trans-rights
Upvotes	0
Comments	94
Date	April 21, 2020 7:11 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/g5lime/ok_so_here_we_go/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/ok-so-here-we-go.854416 https://theredarchive.com/post/854416

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