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Supreme Court rules not wearing condom against partner's wishes could lead to sexual assault conviction

traveller1976

July 29, 2022
48 upvotes
/r/MensRights
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/scc-condom-use-case-decision-1.6535127
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Post Information
Title Supreme Court rules not wearing condom against partner's wishes could lead to sexual assault conviction
Author

traveller1976

Upvotes 48
Comments 54
Date July 29, 2022 8:04 PM UTC
(3 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/wbebmr/supreme_court_rules_not_wearing_condom_against/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/supreme-court-rules-not-wearing-condom-against.1125978
https://theredarchive.com/post/1125978
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Comments

[–]63daddy 85 points86 points87 points 3 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

There have already been college cases of males being expelled for sexual assault due to a condom coming off during sex.

I agree men shouldn’t lie about condom use, but by the same logic if it’s sexual assault for a man to misrepresent condom use, then it should also be sexual assault for a woman to misrepresent her birth control use.

[–]Ok-Hamster5571 32 points33 points34 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Completely agree. Women lying about IUDs or the pill are non-consensual acts also. 100%

[–]BaaGoesTheSheep 18 points19 points20 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

My wife did this to me to get pregnant. She stopped taking birth control but told me that she was still on it. Do you think that changes the fact that I’m forced to be a parent?

[–]63daddy 15 points16 points17 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sorry to hear, but it’s a good real life lesson as to why men can’t just trust women when it comes to birth control.

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]lordluke1019 points 3 years ago* [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

Uhm, if she lying about birth control, she will also dodge an abortion and try to baby trap. No need for a test, it's pretty clear to tell what the intention is

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Ok-Hamster5571 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That would be easier than the case in today’s ruling. Pharmacies have records of filling prescriptions. Doctors have records that include birth control methods. These could easily be subpoenaed in a federal ruling.

Were it me, I would also leave a paper trial via text summarizing: “just so we agree: you are on the pill and ____.

Her answer will be available by way of subpoena from the phone company. And that’s a pretty lock solid case.

[–]Extra-Strike2276 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's real easy honestly. A simple hair test will show last 6 months and can be even longer depending. In most cases the women doesn't have any birth control so it's easy to show she did it with intent. Doctor or pharmacy showing she didn't pick any up in the last year.

[–]weirdornxtlvl 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

The pill is 99.9% effective if used consistently with no skipping. So, if she gets pregnant means she lied.

And yes, some women do it intentionally to hook men. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-5271573/People-reveal-lied-using-contraceptives.html

No one ever called it sexual assault/rape nor gave men the right to abandon a pregnancy they never planned.

[–]TossAwayFamilyRant -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pill can be less effective if mixed with other meds like antibiotics …

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]weirdornxtlvl 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"and when taken correctly, it is up to 99.9% effective." https://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-control/birth-control-pills

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]allmyghtt 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can we put people in jail for a condom breaking or coming off during sex ..... .1% obviously not sooooooo

[–]Fuzzy_Department2799 35 points36 points37 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I actually agree with it. If consent is based on condom use and you refuse or sneakily take it off you did not have consent for that.

[–]Ok_Kaleidoscope2340 -3 points-2 points-1 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

We cannot trust anyone now. Nerdy girls are better.

[–]traveller1976[S] 21 points22 points23 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It sounds strange but this might be a good thing for men. The best way to become a slave for life is to give a woman a baby to hang over your head.

[–]Extra-Strike2276 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The laws fine as long as it's equally used on everyone. I've known far more women who've refused a condom, most men I know refuse anything without one. I've overheard a lot of women mentioning putting holes in condoms to keep men around too. That should be the same as taking one off, but I highly doubt it will be.

[–]Efficient_Creme_3067 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean, this sounds like a good idea, but ultimately, this is just another thing for women to lie about. “I told him to wear a condom, but he wouldn’t do it”.

[–]LargeShinyFruit 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's what sucks. Every good thing gets taken advantage of .

[–]g1455ofwater 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is similar to someone not disclosing STDs that they have that they could pass on to the other person.

[–]MGTOW_and_Bitcoin 10 points11 points12 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

But sperm jacking is still fine.... smfh

[–]traveller1976[S] 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's why men should personally dispose of the condom

[–]MGTOW_and_Bitcoin -4 points-3 points-2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That doesn't matter to the issue at hand. Are you one of those people that accuses women of rape because they were dressed sexy?

Motive and opportunity is not the same as actually committing what should be a crime.

There's an important difference I'm pointing to

[–]RandomRedditGuy322 11 points12 points13 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

And how on earth will this ever be proven? Knowing Canada they will make the man prove that he was told he could have sex without a condom, or make him provide evidence that he was wearing one, which of course men won't be able to do.

They will flip the burden of proof of men therefore making any act of sex a sexual assault claim. Men will never be able to prove they were wearing a condom if a woman says otherwise.

[–]traveller1976[S] 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It may give rise to iron clad app based consent. In any case no man should penetrate minus a condom, no woman can be trusted.

[–]RandomRedditGuy322 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Even with a condom, a woman can simply lie and if the courts flip the burden of proof there will be nothing a man can do to prove he was wearing a condom at the time of the sex. Canadian courts have already begun flipping the burden of proof in sexual assault cases, and this would lead the man being convicted every single time

[–]TracyMorganFreeman 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nothing is ironclad these days, least of all what is electronic

[–]Ok-Hamster5571 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Who’s to say it’s not sex between two men?

[–]zincholo 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

But the question is what if a woman does not take pregnancy pills against uer partners wishes? I know some men are saying that this ruling also benefits men because they wont be giving woman a child to be used as a money grabbing weapon against theirselves in future

But its not equality, equality goes both ways, if its crime to not a wear condom if the woman wants then it should also be a crime if a woman does not wear their condom or use the pregnancy preventing pills if their partner wants

[–]traveller1976[S] 12 points13 points14 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes we need court rulings that hold women accountable for lying about birth control

[–]zincholo 8 points9 points10 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This ruling has no basis, if a woman who wants sex but does not want to get pregnant then its her own duty to take birth control or wear female condom same goes for man.

But bounding one gender(a man) to be fully responsible this is straight harassment and injustice

[–]Ok-Hamster5571 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You are absolutely correct. This ruling is based on a 2017 charge, so someone in Canada will have to charge a woman and escalate it to the Supreme Court

[–]IceCorrect 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

And how you prove that she lie or just "forget" to take it. Ofc if condom slip in heat of the moment there will be no question only executioner

[–]zincholo -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The pregnancy i guess

[–]IceCorrect 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Then she will say that she just forget, or it was this 1% chance when it doesnt work. My point is that you cant prove she done it on purpose

[–]zincholo 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But in case of condoms men can also not prove that it slipped. The point is if i have to carry the weight i will make her carry some weight too. I will not sit back and take an extra step while she does not uave to do anything except sit back and relax and when the time comes blame me for an assault.

[–]IceCorrect -1 points0 points1 point 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you belive this will happen? I dont. Men are convicted from the start and its his job to prove his inocense.

[–]JCgamerX 7 points8 points9 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

this is more against stealthing during sex which is not cool

[–]LettuceBeGrateful 5 points6 points7 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, agreed. This kind of thinking should be more gender neutral, but there's nothing wrong with criminalizing stealthing. That shit's reprehensible.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 3 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

The point is, how do you prove she agreed to not use one after she lies and says she told you to?

Stay away, guys.

[–]Ok-Hamster5571 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Nothing in the ruling specifies gender. So I’m not sure this one is fully against men, as it includes female condoms (sex workers, for example), male on male sex, etc

It’s just broadly about stealthing, which isn’t ideal

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, well you have to look at the numbers. How many male condoms per year vs female condoms per year are purchased?

[–]Ok-Hamster5571 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I recently asked a sexual education centre and most female condoms are used by sex workers.

So I honestly don’t know what the ratio of production is.

Layperson purchase: obviously most condoms go on penises.

So: yes, I agree.

And also: this applies to men to men sexual encounters as well. We could make the same point, to be sure.

The vast intention of the ruling is male to female penetration, due to numbers. Yes.

[–]KazukiYahashi 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This could easily be abused…

[–]Boss4life12 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I jave no problems with this in theory but how does one prove eithir side in a court case? How does the girl prove she wanted the condom and how does the man prove his innocence?

[–][deleted] 3 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]traveller1976[S] 2 points3 points4 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

They can and will do so, men have to be very careful

[–]Ok-Hamster5571 0 points1 point2 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ideally someone takes that to the Canadian Supreme Court. That’s equally non-consensual

[–]Outrageous_Fondant12 3 points4 points5 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s becoming too dangerous to have sex. Pretty soon all we’ll have is that VR sex from Demolition Man.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I while ago I was joking that you will need a lawyer and two witnesses every time you attempt sexual contact, but it’s your reality now.

[–]Extra-Strike2276 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

What I can't believe is the article I read about it even mentions putting holes in the condom is rape but only mentions a man doing it. Its a running joke that a women does it to trap a man but there was zero mention of women doing it to men. I mentioned the laws fine as long as it's not gendered to exclude men on another sub and immediately got a reply saying of course it does lol. So many are so ignorant in the wording in these laws. I know there only things I can find about it is only saying it's a problem if a man does it, I can't find a single mention of it being used against women.

[–]Even_Personality5639 1 point2 points3 points 3 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah this is good news,

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