Male versus Female Characters in Movies/Literature/TV/ect

ayyeih-na-eloheykhem · 2014-04-19T15:46:11+00:00

Spot on, I would describe this as a form of translation convention (Yeah, I know we need a TVTropes link bot) applied to measurement of social status. You will also have noticed that even among a robust female cast, the higher-status or smarter or cooler a woman is supposed to be the more beautiful she will tend to be (with exceptions where this expectation is played with).

endendino · 2014-04-19T18:24:46+00:00

Women: Women almost always have to be attractive regardless of any other traits they bring to the table. To have a strong female lead, a women has to be attractive and funny, or she has to be attractive and smart. IMO, this attractiveness prerequisite exists because a large portion of men simply will not pay attention to a female character unless shes attractive. She can be smart and funny, but it won't matter if she's not a pretty face.

that used to be much truer than it is nowadays. look at parks&rec, arrested developement, broad city(not my thing but it's getting buzz) or girls(not my thing either).

the improvemen isn't as noticeable on the big screen, but with melissa mccrathy becoming the new big thing in comedy last year, i'm sure you'll see more of that...(try to hold your frame for this next part) and for all of reddit's obsession with J-Law, she doesn't look like a hollywood knockout, but despite of that she's quickly becoming one of the biggest stars in the world due to the fact that she's talented as hell. she also paved the path for shailene woodley(i.e. the girl who got fired from spiderman for being too ugly) who is in for a breakout year.

not saying this isn't a problem but in the last decade we've seen a huge improvement and we should acknowledge that.

goatismycopilot · 2014-04-19T20:50:00+00:00

Women always have a cadre of friends who themselves fulfill tropes. The lead is always stunningly beautiful and either smart and misunderstood or funny and goofy and misunderstood. She always has an "ethnic" friend, a wild/sassy friend, and an overweight or nerdy friend. The friends are always less attractive than her. They all have weird office jobs where they can take off for all day lunches but they always have important projects due. They always have an "assistant" who is a gay man, a working class woman who has ambitions but might be slightly slutty looking and who often dispenses unwanted advice or who covers for them. The boss is either a female psycho boss who is threatened by them or a clueless man.

Everybody seems to also have amazing apartments in metropolitian cities where rent is high and space is limited that nobody can afford unless they have a six figure income.

I assume screen writers have mostly never had actual jobs before.

ThorLives · 2014-04-20T08:26:35+00:00

If a movie or TV show or commercial needs an idiot or jester to laugh at, it'll be a man. I can't count the number of commercials that contrast "idiot, bumbling man" with "smart woman". In many cases, these characters are used as comic relief or to drive a plot forward because they're just so stupid that they get themselves into all kinds of trouble.

In movies and TV, men can get away with being just smart or just funny.

Yes, I'd agree with that as long as you include "funny at their own expense" (because they're just so dumb) in your definition of "funny".

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000183986/polls_homer_simpson_2537_601182_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

The TVTropes website has a lot of articles on male/female tropes. Here are some of the ones portraying men badly:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BumblingDad

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MenAreTheExpendableGender

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandardAbuseFemaleOnMale

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FemaleAngelMaleDemon

drok007 · 2014-04-19T16:01:00+00:00

How about that men get blown up like all the time and die left and right? When a woman dies, it's usually a pretty big deal. In fact, when a random person gets saved it's usually some random woman and her kids. When a random person gets killed, it's usually a guy.

I think this mirrors real life in a way since pretty much no one actually gets to be the superhero or leader or CEO, but that's all anyone cares or talks about. Most people are the average ones running around screaming and struggling when shit goes down. And the idea is that women would be saved and protected, but fuck men.

MagicGainbow · 2014-04-19T15:48:52+00:00

I think that a "tropes vs men" a la Anita Sarkeesian would be both surprising and informative for everyone. Just like her tropes vs women series.

I wish, rather than post endless, poorly thought out rebuttals to her videos, some of the haters would utilize their time more efficiently and examine how the media portrays men, and what the implications are on society.

I don't know if something like this exists but if you find something please post it.

The only thing I've heard of is the work on benevolent sexism done by some academic feminists, and they mention how harmful the cliche of the bumbling sitcom dad is to men.

And MissRepresentation is doing (did?) a documentary about how gendered patriarchal roles/qualities are harmful to boys.

jacks1000 · 2014-04-19T15:49:49+00:00

So who makes these movies and TV shows?

lev21pirate · 2014-04-19T16:06:11+00:00

It could be that the attractiveness criteria are harsher on men then women.

I mean we've all seen that Okc statistics where a majority of men (reviewed by women) are considered below average on attractiveness while only the top percentile were attractive or above. While a majority of women (rated by men) were considered attractive. Right?

So by default , a woman doesn't have to be attractive its just happen that most of them are (to men), while men usually don't meet the criteria of "physical attractiveness" as dictated by women.

I don't see this as objectified in different ways since the trait being reduced to is the same. Its really a matter of scale where most women fall in the attractive category while most men don't.

goatismycopilot · 2014-04-19T20:55:22+00:00

And movies often feature less attractive or schlubby dudes who score super model chicks by proving themselves through some "quest," less attractive or schlubby women are always paired with their equivalent, they never score the impossibly hot dude.

SirNemesis · 2014-04-21T19:53:03+00:00

Why the hell are so many women fans of Twilight?

Can they really not tell the difference between love and an abusive stalker?

roe_ · 2014-04-19T16:03:45+00:00

That comic is satire - which means it's both funny and unfair.

(That is - Black Widow was portrayed as highly competent and intelligent, Joss Whedon is known for writing good, fully flushed out female characters, and she never once did that move in the Avengers to my memory)

The other thing is - you could basically redraw that comic with Hawkeye in his super-short sleeves highlighting his biceps & deltoids.

But, ya, one issue of that low-status men and unpretty women are basically invisible to the opposite sex.

roe_ · 2014-04-19T16:05:30+00:00

Also on this subject, I saw Rio 2 with my kids the other day, then watched this review - it's basically spot-on.

CFRProflcopter · 2014-04-19T15:54:55+00:00

I also want to say that while there's objectification of both men and women, this whole situation puts more undue stress on women than on men. Attractiveness is largely something that can't be improved or changed all that much; at the very least, there's a limit as far as what you can do to really improve your beauty. Beauty is also limited by age. It's difficult to remain attractive into your 40s.

Men, however, can improve their intellect or humor in a few admittedly limited ways. Even if the opportunity for improvement is limited, men can be funny or smart their entire lives. There's no time limit like there is with beuaty.

So despite the fact that objectification goes both ways, I think it's slightly more harmful for women than it is for men.

Title	Male versus Female Characters in Movies/Literature/TV/ect
Author	CFRProflcopter
Upvotes	8
Comments	62
Date	April 19, 2014 3:17 PM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/23fu39/male_versus_female_characters_in/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/male-versus-female-characters-in.285858 https://theredarchive.com/post/285858

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