Sister having a baby boy/Pro-Circumcision. What can I do without overstepping my bounds?

xNOM · 2014-04-22T02:56:17+00:00

Make sure she watches an infant circumsision. With the babies screams.

2014-04-22T02:49:36+00:00

I just Googled "how popular is circumcision today" and clicked on the first result, expecting it to be some propaganda advocating why everybody should be circumcised. To my surprise, it wasn't. It said that today leaving babies intact is the norm and doing otherwise is no longer recommended by any legitimate healthcare organizations.

So I think the argument here is that, while your family might still think this is the norm, the truth is that it's not. She needs to understand that by the time her son grows up to be an adult, he might be at a disposition which makes him feel out of place among his peers.

aussietoads · 2014-04-22T02:30:37+00:00

There are some good videos on youtube showing circumcision and the obvious pain endured by little boys undergoing the procedure.

This article is a very comprehensive one that tackles the myths, misinformation and double standards of male circumcision advocates.

http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk/2014/02/female-genital-mutilation-and-male-circumcision-time-to-confront-the-double-standard/

SporkTornado · 2014-04-22T02:13:37+00:00

You could always make the logical argument. Show her articles and such that go into detail of the harm caused by male genital mutilation. Don't just be angry, or yell at her. What we have is a lack of awareness of male genital mutilation. A lot of people don't understand that the foreskin is covered in nerve endings and serves a vital purpose of protecting the glans head. Show her the medical literature on the topic. She probably thinks that a baby's foreskin is no different from the skin on her arm.

eyenot · 2014-04-22T04:06:10+00:00

I was in your position about 4 years ago. A few months before my sister was due, when we were both visiting my mom (we all live in different parts of the country), I took advantage of a moment when nobody else was around and asked if they were planning to circumcise. She said, "Absolutely" as if it would be crazy not to. I don't remember what all I said, but I indicated I thought she shouldn't. And I probably reacted with a little more emotion than I had planned. She said "But (her husband's name) is", as if that's a good reason. She was very adamant about it. I had also kind of wanted to keep the conversation between us, because I had never talked with my parents about their decision to circumcise me. At that point, my mom came back in the house and my sister told her that I was upset about being circumcised. My mom kind of blew it off as being no big deal. Then more family came in and we dropped it. I was also feeling super pissed at how casually my mom reacted.

Later on, when it was just the three of us, I brought it up again to my mom. This time she actually said that, if she knew then what she knew now, that it has an effect on the man's pleasure, she probably would make a different decision. She talked about how much she cried when they brought me back from getting it done. And how she pretty much just went along with it - that my dad was circumcised, and everyone was getting it done. So, that made me feel a little better about it, that she at least recognized that maybe it was wrong, and I was glad she said that in front of my sister.

Sometime after that visit, when my sister and I were both back out our respective homes, we talked on the phone and I brought it up, and asked her if she'd be open to receiving some information about circumcision that she perhaps hadn't considered. She said she would be. So I sent her a long email containing lots of links and information. I also offered to buy her Circumcision: The Hidden Trauma if she would read it, but she didn't take me up on that.

She never did respond to that email. However, I heard through my mom that my sister and her husband were having lots of discussions about it, so I'd like to think I at least got them to consider the extent of what they were doing had they followed through with their original plan.

I wish I could tell you that I managed to convince them not to. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. To this day, I don't know if my nephew is or isn't mutilated. I feel like if I did convince them not to, she would have told me they didn't. I do feel more distant from her now, and don't see her the same.

This may seem strange, but I feel like if I try to convince someone I care about not to circumcise, and they do anyway, it's an even worse crime than if they did it out of ignorance.

Anyway, it's a tough position that you're in. I don't think you'd be out of bounds to try to convince her not to - after all, for lots of people, it's just what you do and they wouldn't even stop to consider that, hey, maybe this is fucked up and wrong. But I also think you're right to worry about it damaging your relationship with her and her child.

TL;DR: I don't know what to tell you :(

Hungerwolf · 2014-04-22T03:24:11+00:00

Look her in the eye and say "Hey, how about you don't cut off the skin around the tip of your baby's dick?"

wufoo2 · 2014-04-22T12:09:22+00:00

Be gentle.

People get defensive about any suggestion that they are mistreating their children. Once you set that off, it's much more difficult to get past it.

I'd open the conversation with, "So, what's your doctor telling you about circumcision?" That puts it on the doctor, not on the parent, so you will be arguing with someone else. Keep it that way. Remember that it would never occur to us to slice healthy bits off a healthy baby if the medical establishment weren't behind it.

By asking this question you will find out what argument is foremost in her mind. Deal with just that one, and try not to give a dissertation or you'll come off as a fanatic.

Be early.

We have a tendency to believe the first thing we hear about a new subject. So, don't delay having a conversation.

As far as material goes, I would print this and have it handy. A link can be ignored; a paper not so easily. And include this one because it addresses all the crap people throw at noncircumcising parents.

I'm ambivalent about this item because, although it's concise and direct, I haven't found that it does a lot of good to confront people head-on about their delusions. But it does state the fact very clearly that there's no clinical basis for the "look like Daddy" argument.

Pecanpig · 2014-04-22T04:30:41+00:00

Educate her.

2014-04-22T06:24:30+00:00

It's really frightening how the exclusively cosmetic mutilation of baby boys is celebrated in America. And it's mostly not even because of some religious conviction but sheer ignorance and sheep mentality. Most parents don't even THINK about the procedure and its consequences, it's just done with a shrug.

ItsJustASnip · 2014-04-22T14:07:26+00:00

Thank you for being so kind and caring that you want to stop this terrible evil that is being done to young boys. And thank you for having the courage to realise that what was done to you was wrong.

There is some excellent advice in the comments - and I would follow that advice. Especially about being gentle but firm when you bring the subject up.

There are also some excellent videos of mothers and their sons discussing what was done to them, and the mother apologising.

But please don't blame yourself if things don't go the way you would wish them to. Your responsibility is to bring the subject up and inform your sister and her husband. Just try your best, that's all that anyone can ask of you. Don't start beating yourself up if they do not take your advice.

If they do continue down the crazy path, then it might be some consolation to you, that hopefully, by the time their son becomes aware of the damage that was done to him, the technology will be available to at least repair the physical damage. It's getting pretty advanced as you can see here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/10/us-organs-vaginas-idUSBREA3924L20140410

2014-04-22T19:02:25+00:00

Ask her how she would feel if someone mutilated her genitals when she was a baby.

rapiertwit · 2014-04-22T20:36:02+00:00

OK one more comment from me: here's a pamphlet from Doctors Opposing Circumcision. It's written by a doctors' group, and the intended audience is doctors and not parents, so I think it carries a little more gravitas than some shrill anticirc site material. It's concise and has a nice little summary of risks vs. benefits that I think is very powerful if you let it sink in.

http://www.nocircmo.org/pamphlets/DOCbrochure.pdf

izomo · 2014-04-22T05:40:56+00:00

Ask her if she would do it to her daughter as well.

2014-04-22T04:37:58+00:00

Ask her, if she would've liked to have her genitals mutilated.

MRSPArchiver · 2014-04-22T01:45:25+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

huntwhales · 2014-04-22T16:34:10+00:00

http://www.theonion.com/articles/the-case-for-and-against-circumcision,35844/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=LinkPreview:1:Default&recirc=music

rapiertwit · 2014-04-22T20:15:25+00:00

I will take a contrary view to what a lot of people are saying here. Don't try to coax her into watching videos of crying babies being circumcised. Media researchers have known for years that, when confronted with disgusting/horrifying stimuli, the mind tends to reject the message associated with the stimuli, and form a negative opinion of the perceived "sender" of that stimuli.

If you're old enough to remember this, back in the day PETA used to run magazine and TV ads that showed cute bunnies with pus-seeping chemical burns and missing eyes and shit from animal testing labs. For years, that was their schtick. Then sometime, I'm guessing in the late 90s, they must have hired a consultant because they switched to showing nothing but cute, unharmed animals frolicking in meadows and junk, and lots and lots of mostly-naked beautiful people. PETA is full of shit on almost every level, but they know how to convince people.

TLDR: If you show her the screaming baby torture videos, research shows that her mind will probably shut itself off to your message.

2014-04-24T15:03:24+00:00

Ask her if she is going to have her daughter's genitals mutilated as well.

2014-04-25T11:12:52+00:00

Ask her to imagine her son, all grown up confronting her about it, pissed off that he was mutilated. Ask her what she'd say to him.

Exactly_what_I_think · 2014-04-22T01:56:51+00:00

Ask her personally. Offer to help her fake a Bris.

If she is still considering it. Tell her you will testify against her when her son sues her for fucking up his dick.

5eraph · 2014-04-22T01:52:36+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Sister having a baby boy/Pro-Circumcision. What can I do without overstepping my bounds?
Author	Chewn
Upvotes	8
Comments	30
Date	April 22, 2014 1:44 AM UTC (12 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/23n5no/sister_having_a_baby_boyprocircumcision_what_can/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/sister-having-a-baby-boypro-circumcision-what-can.1001445 https://theredarchive.com/post/1001445

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