Eureka moment - one of the fundamental underlying differences between feminism and men's rights, and why we're speaking two different languages

2012-10-27T22:42:41+00:00

What you're seeing here, is some of the underlying structures of traditional gender roles. They're not really new, and people have been acting according to them for a very long time. I'm of the opinion that these differences are an artificial social construct, and that we can create a better world with better communication, and more individual oppertunities, by adapting or dismantling some of these roles.

To improve communication and understanding from this, we need men to be more attentive to feelings and more community-oriented, and women to be more attentive to physical and financial realities. This is how we'll bridge the gap. Ironically, I think what I just wrote was one of the first goals of early feminism. I'm sure I'll be corrected by someone if I'm wrong.

DavidByron · 2012-10-27T22:51:39+00:00

No, it's simpler than that.

feminists, seem to be approaching life from an emotional standpoint. Leers and catcalls are direct attacks on some un-quantifiable emotional resource that these women value as the most important requirement for happiness

They concentrate on those "issues" because that's all they've got. Feminists need to manufacture causes so they can pretend to be about equality, but because women are privileged no genuine issues exist. So feminists just make up shit or talk about their feelings. The do that because feminists hate men and hate equality.

That's why what passes for an issue of "oppression" of women is often something most men would be glad of if it happened to them. It's simply saying that feminism is full of shit.

Obviously men have the same and far worse emotional issues that they face and which feminists totally ignore. If your theory was correct then feminists would be all over the emotional issues men face, even while mysteriously unable to understand the real physical issues men face.

Sorry. I know you are desperately trying to avoid the conclusion that feminism is utterly full of shit here, but that's just a fact.

jolly_mcfats · 2012-10-28T02:54:10+00:00

I think there probably is a reason that books like "Sexual Personae" and "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" are periodically popular. But I think that it's too reductionist to just decide that all women are one way, and all men are another. I know as a man, I worry more about emotional abuse and manipulation than I do about physical abuse. It's a lot easier to get over an ass-kicking than a destructive meme. I'd actually like to see it differently, but it seems to me the majority of posts to this subreddit consist of emotional responses to a societal double standard, rather than discussions about things like mens health, homelessness, reproductive rights, etc... A lot of men come here because they are emotionally hurt, which makes them angry, which makes them want a place to rant about it without having the whole process repeat itself.

I don't think it is as simple as "women need to cry, men need to retreat to the man-cave". I think in general, we (humans) DO tend to just worry about womens welfare more than mens because it made a lot of biological sense to when we hadn't basically conquered every other organism on planet earth. Now we still worry about women more than men because we've got all that programming to. We have all these pink events to raise awareness of breast cancer when more men die of cancer than women. Women's health is a big campaign platform while men have the shorter life expectancy. We worry about single mothers having to make ends meet, but not abandoned fathers forced into indentured servitude to women who won't let them be in their children's lives. We get obsessed about just how many cents a woman makes for every dollar a successful man makes, but fail to recognize that boys are being failed by the school system, and that there is no social net to catch men- which is why men comprise such a huge amount of the homeless. We are horrified that women feel uncomfortable walking down the street in a slinky red dress, while it isn't even mentioned that for men, suicide is starting to rival car accidents as a common cause of death. Neither men nor women care about men's hardships because evolutionary conditioning has trained us to only look at the most successful men, and assume that all men SHOULD be like the most successful 1%- and that if they aren't, something is wrong with them and they don't count, and are disposable.

ezeepeezee · 2012-10-27T22:06:23+00:00

I agree.

What a lot of people don't seem to understand is that you can't make someone else feel something. You are the one who controls how you feel and how you react based on that feeling.

As a fairly emotional person, I also know just how hard it is to be rational and logical when something has pissed you off or upset you. Sometimes I lose all reasoning abilities, short-term memory (not joking here), and react based on nothing but what I'm feeling in that instant. It's incredibly harmful and insanely hard to break.

VoodooIdol · 2012-10-27T23:25:46+00:00

So, feminists don't understand men's rights because financial hardship isn't a concept in their social landscape.

Horseshit. Tell that to all the single mothers out there.

rightsbot · 2012-10-27T20:46:18+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

Aaod · 2012-10-28T03:26:19+00:00

I would like to point out that men are also raised to ignore their emotions and to shrug off emotional things. It likely does not help the already different mind set we are born with.

typhonblue · 2012-10-28T00:07:42+00:00

How about this for an analogy.

Say you're in a neighbourhood where if you don't have pretty flowers you're considered subhuman, in fact even you consider yourself subhuman but those flowers are given out based on, oh, say race.

Black people get no flowers; White people get a bushelful.

Let's say you're a black person walking down a street and you pass a white person's garden full of flowers.

Does that white person owe you her flowers? No. Does it piss you off that she got flowers and not you? Yep. Are you inclined to feel entitled to a few of her flowers? Yep. Are you really entitled to those flowers? Nope.

There. The whole fucking thing is explained.

PacmanWasALangolier · 2012-10-27T22:06:58+00:00

If women really think the way you suggest (I do not) then there is no hope of a fair and equal society. Anyone who thinks that emotional "attacks" are as serious as actual physical and legal abuses is just an idiot. You cannot have a society where people are not offended or upset by other people. Its just impossible and would be hellish to live in if it were possible. I really hope you and other MRAs are wrong about this. My experience is that men and woman can both be rational. Many Feminists maybe think he way you are talking about (which would explain why they are total idiots).

ibm2431 · 2012-10-28T17:09:16+00:00

Yeah, poverty is a male-only problem. Women never have to think about money because they're too busy crying about feeling fat and not having a boyfriend.

Since we're men, we never worry about such petty things like 'emotions' and 'objectification'. We focus on child support and alimony because they're financial problems, not because we're upset with discrimination condoned by the justice system.

Personally, I think we can improve our communications with feminists by trying to explain that men and women are inherently different. Of course, we can't just tell them that they're more emotional while we're more cerebral - they'd just perceive the attempt as an insult and tune us out. Probably while whining to their girlfriends and scarfing down chocolates.

What we should try to do instead is use small, emotionally-charged words that focus on feelings. We should make them understand (or rather, feel) that we don't view them as inferior - we're just better at thinking logically.

Comments