A Thought on Feminism and Father's Rights (x-post r/feminism)

harlomcspears · 2012-10-02T11:14:59+00:00

You'd think that would be the case, and for your average "woman on the street" feminist, it probably is.

But then you go look at the position of major feminist organizations, like NOW, and you realize they have absolutely no intention of giving up female privilege in this area. In fact they actively fight the presumption of equal custody and vehemently deny that mothers are even capable to wrongdoing wrt their children.

AnthonyZarat · 2012-10-02T12:42:06+00:00

Thank you for your honest and compassionate assessment of the situation.

The #1 issue for MRAs is the presumption of 50/50 shared custody. This is a rebutable presumption. If the father cannot demonstrate that he is a fit parent, and that he can and does provide adequate care to his children, the 50/50 presumption can be set asside. This means that, even if the court determines that the mother is a better parent, the father receives 50% custody if he can demonstrate that he is a fit parent. This is important because MRAs believe that family courtrs are colossaly biased against fathers, which guarantees that every court will automatically assume that the mother is "better" in some way.

Here is the sad history of 50/50 shared custody:

Sweden briefly toyed with presumptive 50/50 shared custody in the 1990's, Swedish women's rights groups complained and they backed away from this. In practice, Swedish courts now presume maternal custody.

Australia was next to experiment with 50/50 shared custody. It lasted about 1 year, before Gillard gutted the law and returned Australia to effective presumption of maternal custody.

In 2009 Belgium became the third and final nation to experiment with presumption of 50/50 shared custody. It is still true today. Personally, I think it is about time that MRAs acknowledge the great Belgian experiment with equality and compassion. Belgium had the courage to stand up to the forces of totallitarian fascism and say "fathers matter."

TracyMorganFreeman · 2012-10-02T10:33:21+00:00

Caroline Norton, a feminist lobbied for the presumption of maternal custody in the 1800s. Since the feminism has been very involved in family law, eroding fathers rights and legal standing as well as obstructing reform and fathers rights groups.

Most lay and follower feminists don't know that the fathers rights is about reforming feminist legislation and feminism obstructs reform Were feminists to to campaign for fathers rights, they too would be considered anti-feminists by the feminist establishment.

OuiCrudites · 2012-10-02T15:38:56+00:00

Women's supremacy organizations including NOW are adamantly opposed to father's rights and shared custody bills. Most recently, successfully killing a shared parenting bil in Minnesota.

Yet, feminists also whine nonstop about being percieved as default child caregivers.

It seems you are identifying this disparity. But no change will be possible until Feminists start demanding reform within their own movement.

2012-10-02T14:49:14+00:00

A major concern of contemporary feminism is the issue of "essentialism," i.e. the phenomenon of identifying certain traits as essential characteristics of femininity

Interestingly MR's is really split on the issue of essentialism. While they will constantly argue against contemporary stereotypes and essentialism for men in the fields of fatherhood and sexual violence. In other areas they will argue it's existence for women.

One of the main places this comes up is the wage gap. Studies have repeatedly shown that the wage gap can be accounted for by women choosing lower paying fields with more flexible work hours, or missing out on career advancement due to extended maternal leave. MRA's therefore would attribute the wage gap to individual choice. If the argument is made that a 20% difference in pay across a large sample size would imply an underlying cause most discussions I have seen will attribute this to some essential biological characteristic of women rather than any sort of cultural training.

In one discussion I had over the tendency of Scandinavian women to work veterinarian jobs primarily involving pets rather than livestock the assertions was made by Cartesian Duelist that "Little girls have been shown at a young age to be more nurturing, even despite attempts at socialization to the contrary. There is plenty of research to suggest female hormones are responsible for these types of feelings". This does directly contradict the idea that men are just as nurturing and therefore make just as good parents.

I am not saying that it wouldn't be possible to make an argument resolving both of those issues. I am saying that MR's should not be seen as anti-essentialist the way a lot of contemporary feminism is, and that often times they can be sloppy in their use of essentialism because MR's too often becomes anti-feminism and fails to develop a consistent gender critique.

DavidByron · 2012-10-02T14:12:01+00:00

It occurred to me that this situation is ,,,actually anti-feminist, as well.

Turns out feminism isn't what you thought it was. Do you honestly think feminism needed you to come along and point this obvious inconsistency out to them? Come on. I think a feminist knows better than you what the official position on father's rights is. All you are going to do is piss them off by saying they're being hypocrites (which obviously they are).

2012-10-02T15:43:01+00:00

Come on, how can any feminist not know the proclamation of their mullahs?

Anything that benefits woman is good.

Anything that doesn't benefit woman is bad.

Apply it to any scenario and you'll see the side that feminism is on. Now see I didn't say, fair, just, equal....etc. No, the key word here is "benefit"

Now lets think, does it benefit woman to be viewed as better parents in child custody cases?

Yes! They get all the positives, children and the fathers money. Why would they relinquish this power and make it easier for fathers to have custody? They'll be losing out on the best redistribution scheme they have going for them!

SilencingNarrative · 2012-10-02T14:39:23+00:00

I think that this is one of those cases where the interests of both MRAs and feminists concur.

You think most feminists don't like the fact the women are usually awarded primary custody? Really?

2012-10-03T00:15:04+00:00

Feminist organizations have actively fought against joint custody as default.

madarapt1 · 2012-10-03T09:18:19+00:00

i think the whole idea of benevolent sexism is ridiculous.

harlomcspears · 2012-10-02T12:30:30+00:00

Please stop trying to spin that automatically giving the women the children to the mother is somehow anti-woman. It is not.

rightsbot · 2012-10-02T10:08:17+00:00

Post text automatically copied here. (Why?) (Report a problem.)

Evolation · 2012-10-02T14:29:45+00:00

We need to stop sucking up to feminists. We're men going our own way. Now that MRM is getting organised, feminazis are getting scared.

Title	A Thought on Feminism and Father's Rights (x-post r/feminism)
Author	harlomcspears
Upvotes	17
Comments	48
Date	October 2, 2012 10:07 AM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/10t5vh/a_thought_on_feminism_and_fathers_rights_xpost/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/a-thought-on-feminism-and-fathers-rights-x-post.1012250 https://theredarchive.com/post/1012250

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