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I commented in /r/feminism about how the MRM is not transphobic, got downvoted.

elitez

January 28, 2012

2 upvotes

/r/MensRights

http://www.reddit.com/r/Feminism/comments/p0jzp/i_asked_rmensrights_if_they_were_antifeminist/c3ljnu0

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Title	I commented in /r/feminism about how the MRM is not transphobic, got downvoted.
Author	elitez
Upvotes	2
Comments	79
Date	January 28, 2012 7:29 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/p0rio/i_commented_in_rfeminism_about_how_the_mrm_is_not/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-commented-in-rfeminism-about-how-the-mrm-is-not.1028590 https://theredarchive.com/post/1028590

Comments

[–]ignatiusloyola 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (57 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (43 children) | Copy Link

[–]ignatiusloyola 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

I don't necessarily think of that as being transphobia. It doesn't indicate that the person is scared of transsexuals, simply that they think that a person's gender status should be part of the "consent" contract. It is a different opinion, and possibly inconsiderate to a transsexual who may be trying to hide their status, but I don't necessarily consider it transphobic.

Turn it around and ask the feminists - if they went to a bar, met a man (assuming they are hetero, replace "man" with "woman" if they are a lesbian), had feelings for them and decided to have sex, would they be just as willing if that man turned out to have a vagina (or the woman had a penis)?

For some people, a sexual relationship needs to be with someone they can possibly (but have not yet decided on) have a future/kids with. If the trans nature of the partner prevents that, then it could be a deal breaker and they may not want to have sex.

Like I said - I am not convinced that is transphobic.

[–]ForMensRights 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ignatiusloyola 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ICumWhenIKillMen 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]ignatiusloyola 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]HarrietPotter 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]ICumWhenIKillMen -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]HarrietPotter -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

...No. That isn't what I said. As you well know, I'm sure. Asshole or bigot? Who knows. First of all, this isn't me, it's some other dude.

Second - if I said "I would punch a woman if she injected me with HIV+", and somebody accused me of being a misogynist, I could counter that by saying "Well, I would also punch a man if he did that". That doesn't make me misogynistic and misandristic, it makes me neither; just because I would treat one group badly in a situation doesnt mean I hate that group, and the easiest way to show that is to point out that I would treat other groups the same way - I'm not reserving special negative treatment for one group, I would react that way at that action no matter the group that perpetrated it.

So, presumably you would be angry if a transwoman walked up to you and slapped you in the face, right? I'll assume you wouldn't assault them. But just because you are getting angry at a transwoman doesn't mean you hate transwomen, you just hate being slapped.

[–]HarrietPotter 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]RobotAnna 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ignatiusloyola 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]JeremiahMRA -8 points-7 points-6 points 14 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]JeremiahMRA -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]ArchangelleRamielle 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]ignatiusloyola 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ignatiusloyola -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I am not sure I agree with your analysis of the statement. I think it relates to the "false dichotomy" problem. Instead of a person being either a man or a woman, or in a transitional state, the statement is saying that a transperson is what their genetics states, which can be male, female, neither or both?

I think the argument being made is that, in an age of plastic surgery and hormone treatments, what is shown on the outside may not belie the underlying genetics. Until we have gene therapies to alter those (we don't, do we?), then some people will value the underlying genetics.

They may still be comfortable having friends who are transgendered, but would want to consider genetics before entering into a physical relationship.

I think I said this elsewhere, but I will say it again - it may be insensitive to transgendered people, but it is not necessarily transphobic on its own. If the issuer of the statement suddenly starts trying to restrict the actions or opinions of others based on the statement, then I think the case for it being a person who is transphobic starts to grow.

But I don't like to think of phrases and statements as being -phobic on their own. It is the meaning and the views of the person behind the statements that are -phobic.

[+][deleted] 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]ArchangelleRamielle 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ignatiusloyola 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]JeremiahMRA 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]JeremiahMRA -8 points-7 points-6 points 14 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]ignatiusloyola 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]JeremiahMRA -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]ignatiusloyola 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ignatiusloyola 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ignatiusloyola -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]drinkthebleach -1 points0 points1 point 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]elitez[S] 7 points8 points9 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]elitez[S] 4 points5 points6 points 14 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

That aside haven't you also seen a lot of misogyny and racism in here too?

Here's one misogynistic comment that I recall was highly up voted.

For men too. Most men want to believe that women are as kind, loving and nurturing as they've been led to believe. The sad truth is that a lot of them are simply vermin. At least compared to what they're typically portrayed as. That they're wolves in sheep's clothing always looking out for number one is much closer to the truth. This realization hits a man hard and drives a lot of men mad. However it's not all bad. We've always been alone and self-sufficient. We've never needed to use anyone like women have. When you realize that a sense of calm washes over you. It's superiority you're experiencing. Nothing that has been, is or ever will be shall stand in our way.

Later on claiming women manipulated men into killing other species(mammoths and sabre-tooth tigers) and so on.

[–]elitez[S] 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]DevinV 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ignatiusloyola 10 points11 points12 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]butyourenice -3 points-2 points-1 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]elitez[S] 5 points6 points7 points 14 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]elitez[S] 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ignatiusloyola 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]elitez[S] 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]drinkthebleach 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link