What is the real definition of "feminism"?

Kuonji · 2010-10-01T17:04:31+00:00

Feminism as a concept only exists under the assumption that in the large arena of sexual equality, women are behind men.

The colloquial definition of feminism is 'equality of the sexes'.

Originally, this was voting rights, employment rights, etc. Big, solid, tangible areas where women were just not allowed to be on peer with men.

Well, most of that has been 'solved'. Laws have been enacted, society has changed drastically. But feminism is still around. In fact, I dare say it's as popular or more popular than ever.

But now it's not about legal rights, but about things like what people think about women, how they interact with them, what women end up becoming rather than what they are allowed to become (equality of outcome vs equality of opportunity).

In the former category of feminism, the inequalities were large and visible, and required change in our evolving society. Women were behind men and needed parity. But the second wave of feminism started dealing with smaller concepts, cultural thoughts and mindsets, but the proclamation was identical. "Women are oppressed and unequal with men!".

But calling it a 'wave' is fitting. Because the proponents were still riding this wave; this unstoppable wave of "We need equality!" without noticing that drowning below the wave were men who had inequalities they faced as well. They had issues with rigid gender roles, societal expectations, cultural attitudes about them, just like women.

So instead of actually trying to get 'equality' with men, they were now trying to get rid of any and all things negative that were associated with women, but they still touted it as 'equality'. They still claimed that because certain issues affected women negatively, but did not affect men negatively, that there was a lack of parity. They never seemed to stop and realize that men faced their own issues, unique to their gender.

Feminism is a huge huge huge monster. And while feminism used to be quite synonymous with equality, it hardly resembles it any more. But it's hard to stop the wave. A wave filled with money, women who 'feel' oppressed, men who 'feel' they need to protect the women who say they are oppressed. It's a juggernaut.

So no, feminism isn't about equality. It's about removal of negative characterizations and treatment of women, because of their sex. Not ignoble, per se, but fuck all if it's 'equality'.

BinaryShadow · 2010-10-01T19:37:17+00:00

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melb22 · 2010-10-02T00:05:00+00:00

Feminism is the belief that individual autonomy is the key good in life (i.e. self-determination, independence); that we are autonomous when we have money, power, status; that men have organised to keep autonomy for themselves at the expense of women; and that human equality and social justice therefore requires that traditional gender roles be overthrown in favour of similar, non-gendered roles for men and women.

There are a whole lot of problems with the theory. First, there's an assumption that what matters most to people is individual autonomy. If that were true then women would be best off living an independent girl lifestyle rather than sacrificing a degree of autonomy for such goods as motherhood and marriage. But most women do eventually opt for non-autonomous goods (some too late).

Second, the theory assumes that men have had easy lives of privilege at the expense of women (given that the traditional male role was supposed to be the ideal autonomous one). So the tremendous sacrifices men have made go unrecognised. And women find out sooner or later that the traditional male role is not a bed of roses.

Third, the theory assumes that masculinity and femininity are oppressive social constructs that can be overthrown in favour of an androgynous non-gendered future. This goes against modern science; it goes against heterosexuality; and, again, most people wherever they have a chance do not end up living this way.

Fourth, the feminist theory sets men and women in opposition. The assumption is that men throughout history have oppressed women (rather than sacrificing themselves for women) and that relationships are not complementary but are a competition for the goods of autonomy.

HQR3 · 2010-10-02T02:53:25+00:00

Feminism is the radical belief that women are human beings...and men are not.

rusty_esp · 2010-10-01T17:41:59+00:00

I don't know where I found this definition but I liked it enough to save it:

Feminism is the theory that men and women are equal in every respect--except for those in which women are superior. The trick is to interpret every social indicator as though it demonstrates arbitrary male privilege or genuine female superiority. Fortunately, a little bit of ignorance is all it takes to accomplish this feat.

ignatiusloyola · 2010-10-02T00:38:52+00:00

Words can have multiple definitions. I don't need to provide examples of this.

I think the usage of the term "feminism" on this forum is adequately described by you. I often use a different definition of feminism.

QueerCoup · 2010-10-02T20:31:00+00:00

The simplest definition that most feminists can agree with is "opposition to patriarchy." It's not about equal rights, or gender balance, it's about doing away with gendered power dynamics.

PolythenePam · 2010-10-02T00:49:23+00:00

I don't know what feminism really means, I read all the posts (so far), and they all make sense. As for me, from what I've seen, feminism is a way to jusitfy being a bitch. I'm a woman BTW, and I'm a humanist. I don't care for abuse towards men from women any more than I care for it towards women from men.

2010-10-02T02:13:10+00:00

"Words don't have a built in definition." -William Burroughs

2010-10-01T19:04:11+00:00

the real definition of feminism is whatever is convenient for the person that is defining it at the time

kloo2yoo · 2010-10-01T16:31:39+00:00

Phase 1:Enter circular discussion wherever you like.

Phase 2: stir up debate and / or agreement

Phase 3: ???

Phase 4: Profit!

Phase 5: Exit when you're sufficiently self-satisfied and / or disgusted.

Repeat as desired.

2010-10-02T21:25:59+00:00

If feminism was really about equality then they would be called humanists.

Lunagurl · 2010-10-02T22:32:48+00:00

The term feminism should just retire. All "feminists" I've met are really humanists in there ideas and practices, but they still call themselves feminists.

Lacuna · 2010-10-02T02:59:43+00:00

Feminism is a search for equality for ALL genders (Fa'afafine, hijra, and any cultural variations of masculine and feminine genders). That should answer your second question; there isn't masculinism because feminism IS masculinism (though technically there is such a thing as masculism. But, for instance, in American society, feminists have been among the earliest and most steadfast champions of rights for gay and black men. Frederick Douglass allied himself closely with the suffragettes in the late 19th century in the search for voting rights, specifically for black men and white women. To reiterate, feminism has traditionally been about attacking social injustice through the lens of gender, to the intended benefit of all people.

Feminism as defined by r/feminism. A definition I agree with and support.

narddawg314 · 2010-10-01T16:13:18+00:00

sooooo....you're stating what? that feminists are pro female only when it suits their needs or agenda? or that men are treated unfairly in regards to equal treatment with women?

JamminCrumpets · 2010-10-02T15:51:40+00:00

This whole thread is actually a quite profound discussion.

kanuk876 · 2010-10-03T01:52:47+00:00

[permanently deleted]

JamminCrumpets · 2010-10-01T22:28:21+00:00

Feminism is the belief that individual, family, community, government and society attention should focus, primarily, on post-pubescent females and their concerns, with only cursory attention, or none at all, given to others.

That's a good definition. I would swap 'post-pubescent' with 'post-adolescent'. Feminists are in the buisiness of brain washing teenage girls but they don't give a fuck for their welfare, as evidenced by the fact that they teach them to be concerned about being thin when obesity is the biggest health problem facing young girls. Or the fact that they are constantly setting restrictions on the sexual choices of under 18s and even under 21s.

My definition would be :

Feminism is a sexual trade union for ageing, unattractive women in a free sexual market. In societies without a free sexual market, for example many Islamic societies, there is no feminism because such women have no need for feminism.

http://theantifeminist.com/what-feminism-is/

2010-10-02T18:08:27+00:00

I define feminism as the movement to create a matriarchy, only to have it crumble back into patriarchy after the world is destroyed by a woman mad that the ruler of another country wore the same dress to the peace talks.

Thank god Hillary and Meg are basically men.

I fear the day a true woman with female hormones is in charge. THE WORLD WILL END. I'm not joking.

Title	What is the real definition of "feminism"?
Author	kanuk876
Upvotes	8
Comments	40
Date	October 1, 2010 4:04 PM UTC (15 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/dljo9/what_is_the_real_definition_of_feminism/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-is-the-real-definition-of-feminism.1047168 https://theredarchive.com/post/1047168

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